The New 13th Doctor - Time for a Time Lady?

Remember in geometry when they taught you, "Every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square?" I guess what I wanted to say was, "Every sexist is upset that there's a female Doctor, but not everyone who's upset that there's a female Doctor is a sexist."

Which is much, much shorter.

Seconded, it's nice that someone in here is talking sense Mystery Lad.

And people, please learn to spell your words correctly. Especially the woman's name if you're going to bash her. It's Jodie, not Jodi and not Jody.

Incidentally, a misogynist is defined as a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women. That is to say hates women. It is not a person who doesn't want to see a woman perform a duty that has been traditionally performed by a man, at worst, that is just chauvinism.

I do not mind The Doctor now being a woman. My only concern is the quality of stories. That is more important than the actors. And for all we know, Jodie might only be The Doctor for three episodes before being replaced and this was all just a stunt to gauge public response!

But I would not like to see a female James Bond. Unlike Doctor Who, James Bond cannot be a woman.  It would become another movie. The Doctor could be cast as a dog and the show could still follow it's premise. James Bond has to be male to be what he is. If "they" did change 007's gender that would be an example of giving in to political correctness and we all know political correctness is just plain dumb. Changing the gender of The Doctor is not a case of political correctness, it's just an example of variety for the sake of bringing up the ratings of a TV show because at the end of all this, that's all Doctor Who is.

People complained about toilets on TV, about double beds on TV, blacks kissing whites on TV, gays kissing on TV and now it's all considered fair game. A few years down the road...if Doctor Who is still going, no one will even recall that the gender thing was a big deal to some...

People were seriously upset and leaving Doctor Who when Peter Capaldi became the Doctor simply because he's older? BUT HE IS SUCH A BRILLIANT ACTOR THOUGH!!! I feel bad at only seeing one episode of his so far, but if you've ever seen him in "Forty Something" his performance was hysterical and a great way to see what he'd be like as the Doctor! Plus him in "Paddington".

Also, is that really true that there are some guys upset that a female Doctor would bring other females into the fandom? That's still a problem? :'(

Also, after reading all of these posts, my opinion is changing and I was uncertain but I realized that my uncertainty was based largely off of my worry about how others are reacting to her. I'm willing to give her a shot! After all, it's only in actually SEEING her act that we can see how great (or not) she is. I mean, we shouldn't base the acting ability of someone off of one or two things that they've been in otherwise I'd never have believed that Robert Downey Jr. could be an awesome Iron Man.

[Also, is that really true that there are some guys upset that a female Doctor would bring other females into the fandom?  That's still a problem? :'([/quote]


I have had female fans in my local group since at least 1982. We had tons of female fans at my first Doctor Who Convention on December 3, 1979 in Los Angeles where Tom Baker was the guest. So I don't see any worry's of more female fans. I say the more fans the merrier .

After all a fan is a fan (at least in my book)

Bob1963 wrote:

Quote :

Also, is that really true that there are some guys upset that a female Doctor would bring other females into the fandom?  That's still a problem? :'(

I have had female fans in my local group since at least 1982.  We had tons of female fans at my first Doctor Who Convention on December 3, 1979 in Los Angeles where Tom Baker was the guest.  So I don't see any worry's of more female fans.  I say the more fans the merrier .

After all a fan is a fan (at least in my book)

Well that's a relief! I'd hate to think that people would still think that scifi is only for guys! You have to admit, at least in this one no one can go after a woman and accuse her of only being interested in Doctor Who because they think the actor (David Tennant/Matt Smith) "is hot". Though you know, she is.

I will admit when I went to my first local group meeting I was surprised that over 50% of the fans were woman. At the convention in Los Angeles in 1979 there were tons of woman several who were trying to hook up with Tom baker including one of the convention organizer's.

its great having a mixture of male and female fans

Bob1963 wrote:

I will admit when I went to my first local group meeting I was surprised that over 50% of the fans were  woman.  At the convention in Los Angeles in 1979 there were tons of woman several who were trying to hook up with Tom baker including one of the convention organizer's.

its great having a mixture of male and female fans

That's so cool! See, women have always loved scifi! I love meeting fellow female nerds! Sometimes it's easier to connect with them than guys because I never know if a guy is thinking that I am stupid or something or only into it because of an actor (which is stupid because that in itself is a valid enough reason to get interested in a show).

I think my dad will like seeing a female Doctor since I am still trying to get him into the show!

Although I'm personally disappointed by the casting, I'll obviously continue to watch.

My main gripe is the timing of it all. We seem to find ourselves in a time where everyone is clambering over themselves to be seen as being diverse for the sake of looking diverse. Many shows these days seem to shoehorn a diverse character in, here and there, and it looks clumsy and obvious.

I am not saying that this is a tick box excercise but I can see why folks feel it is one.

Will she be any good in the role? Who knows. Only time will tell.

I know this is a little of topic but Can someone explain to where the war doctor fall into place? I thought we were counting him as one of the doctors regeneration's if so wouldn't this make her the 14 doctor?

The Doctor count, as far as I understand it, comes from the number of stars who have had the leading role in the series and is how the BBC officially refers to them.

...so maybe the War Doctor is kind of an 8.5...??    

The 12th Doctor isn't the 12th incarnation:

1  William Hartnell
2  Patrick Troughton
3  Jon Pertwee
4  Tom Baker
5  Peter Davison
6  Colin Baker
7  Sylvester McCoy
8  Paul McGann
War (9)  John Hurt
9 (10)   Christopher Eccelston
10 (11)  David Tennant
10 (12)  David Tennant
11 (13)  Matt Smith
12 (14)  Peter Capaldi  - 1st Doctor of new regeneration cycle
13 (15)  Jodie Whittaker - 2nd Doctor of new regeneration cycle

Matt Smith ended the first regeneration cycle as stated in his final episode.  The Timelords gave him the new regeneration cycle that he used to blow-up a bunch of Daleks.  The 13th Doctor will be the 15th incarnation.  And that all assumes you ignore "The Brain of Morbius" and possible earlier Doctors.

And even this list isn't quite right. Are there 2 David Tennant Doctors? Or did his hand steal a regeneration? Either way Matt Smith didn't think he could regenerate as it was his final incarnation.

Makes you wonder if in parallel time the 10th Doctor regenerated into some one else instead of Matt Smith. Assuming the P T Tennant was able to regenerate at all?

Did anyone notice that when Moffat wrote: Doctor Who and the Fatal Death, he totally cast 4 male doctors followed by a female doctor?... And then in the Official Revived show they cast 4 male doctors followed by a female doctor. Fatal also had some other foreshadowing details. Perhaps this has been planned from the beginning? Anyhoo, aside from conspiracy I am not a fan of the casting ( albeit, I think Jodie is super cute) The Doctor has chosen to be male for over 2,000 years and has had several female romances... I'm saying this fact makes the casting of a female Doctor totally out of character, also the doctor has been married on purpose to Two different women: Susan's grandma and River Song. Technically he ran away and married Rose in his 2nd 10th doctor form and Tennant married Queen Elizabeth as well. Now we have a female Doctor who will fall for male companions, or vice versa, or lesbian, etc. ( No offense to lifestyles, rather consistent character development ) And just to call it what it is, the 13th Doctor is Officially the first "Transgender Doctor", which in my opinion was the point of the change...is it entertainment? Propaganda? Am I done with the Doctor?...nope, I will keep Hartnell-Capaldi minus the regeneration and maybe catch back up with the 14th or 15th or maybe cap it off as the end of my collection. Was a great ride while it lasted and Big finish will be seeing more of my cash Love Broadchurch.

Winter wrote:

Did anyone notice that when Moffat wrote: Doctor Who and the Fatal Death, he totally cast 4 male doctors followed by a female doctor?... And then in the Official Revived show they cast 4 male doctors followed by a female doctor. Fatal also had some other foreshadowing details. Perhaps this has been planned from the beginning? Anyhoo, aside from conspiracy I am not a fan of the casting ( albeit, I think Jodie is super cute) The Doctor has chosen to be male for over 2,000 years and has had several female romances... I'm saying this fact makes the casting of a female Doctor totally out of character, also the doctor has been married on purpose to Two different women: Susan's grandma and River Song. Technically he ran away and married Rose in his 2nd 10th doctor form and Tennant married Queen Elizabeth as well. Now we have a female Doctor who will fall for male companions, or vice versa, or lesbian, etc. ( No offense to lifestyles, rather consistent character development ) And just to call it what it is, the 13th Doctor is Officially the first "Transgender Doctor", which in my opinion was the point of the change...is it entertainment? Propaganda? Am I done with the Doctor?...nope, I will keep Hartnell-Capaldi minus the regeneration and maybe catch back up with the 14th or 15th or maybe cap it off as the end of my collection. Was a great ride while it lasted and Big finish will be seeing more of my cash Love Broadchurch.

Amen brother! Especially the part about Big Finish and cash, been with them since 1999 and there great for the most part (to be fair no production company can make every story a winner). I wll also try and keep up with the BBC Book of older Doctors, I used to collect them quite regularly till after the third volume of the current Doctor as well as Titan Comics.

I thought I had posted in here, but I guess not.  I think the square-rectangle comment by mysterylad sums it up perfectly.  There has been so much vitriol spilled against those who have said "I don't want the Doctor to be a woman."  That does not equal misogyny, or even chauvinism.  I've watched the slow decline of this show that I've loved so much, with bad stories, then with politically charged comments, and I've had to just roll my eyes and hope the folly would end.  (And yes, I know the old series touched on social or political topics occasionally.)

I'm one of those not interested in seeing the Doctor become a woman.  Other than Romana II's odd regeneration scene with the silver skin option, or 9's comment about regenerating and having two (or no) head(s), this idea of Time Lords changing gender was introduced in the show during Moffat's run.  (Tom Baker and JNT mentioned it in interviews in the 80s, I believe.)  I knew to expect a gender change since it has been mentioned repeatedly for a few years now.  So I'm not surprised, just a little let down.

I'll still watch the show.  I understand they have to keep it interesting, I just don't agree with this decision.  Maybe I'll end up really liking Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor.  I'm willing to give it a chance, but I'm hoping we aren't unnecessarily and repeatedly reminded of the gender change.  That would make a big deal of something we're being told should not be a big deal.

The BBC in several articles posted why in my posts I've touched on. Love the CW Supergirl and other actress who have played the Rani & Romana. (BBC wants you to forget that, the show is on a one track setting). What the BBC has let happen on the side is Big Finish which has been doing Doctor Who where it should have gone. For the 50th we got the multi Doctor story, BBC just ran a story on "80s Doctor Who is Rubbish" The big item should be why did the BBC drop the ball, Doctor Who is a huge property for them. They tried to cancel the 25th anniversy, but we did get Dimensions in Time.. The we have to go with a female Doctor for a wider audience is a joke, , again BBC posted James Bond will be next target of this agenda. The myth that woman can't create lead rolls on there own.The fans really need to hold them to task on this. BBC owns Doctor Who's recipe, I'm a consumer, like example McD's if I get a big Mac I want a big Mac like I have Horton before. Change is great new items are great, but you get away from the recipe, or we don't want to sell to our regular customers we want the wider customer audience. In business that's suicide. To the BBC they don't care because they are a monopoly. The pretending that everyone is on board with this is offensive and that if we are not we board with this we are sexist. That's the political correctness crowd trying to shut down free speech, which is on display with this choice. I will not support any Doctor Who products going in this direction, my response to this.

Another brilliant post. Over at Galley base the thumbs down numbers have grown over 23 since I posted in the pol on Friday evening. True Nu Who is way ahead but the dissatisfied number is high enough to hopefully make the BBC at least be concerned

I will watch the new series. I'm a bit bummed about it. Not because of a female Doctor, but I'm just not sold on the actress.

But who knows, she may be amazing in the role. We will see.

Well, I let the casting sink in for a while and I'm still of the same mind frame. I'm going to predict some viewing numbers for season 11. Episode 1: 6.75 million, Episode 2: 6.5 million, Episode 3: 6.5 million, Episode 4: 5.75 million, Episode 5: 3.9 million, episode 6-13 4 million and under. (Barring no multi doctor stories or special guest stars) Christmas episode will hit 6 million and season 12 will hover in between 3.5-5 million.

Basically, as far as I am concerned, the final episode of Doctor Who will be on Christmas Day. I started watching in 1981 on WTTW Chicago and I am appalled by the decision to cast a female. Some people have used the "new kidneys" line to say that a gender change is the same thing. It isn't. He had kidneys, stomach, hearts, lungs, etc before. They were new in that they were renewed and replaced, but they weren't created. He won't regenerate into a being with a second head, 4 arms, 12 toes, 13 fingers, etc. His form stays basically the same. The only limit is his DNA. When Romana went through that silly regeneration sequence in "Destiny f The Daleks", each of those choices was still female. I view Doctor Who as a British institution. Like having real turkey instead of tofu turkey for Christmas, real Christmas crackers instead of fake decorative ones, red double-decker buses, afternoon tea, Beefeaters in red uniforms, etc. This is change for the sake of change. There is no logic or rationale behind it. Some claim this change will add fans. If that is the case, then where are the fans who have been waiting for years to watch the series, but wouldn't because it had a male lead. Doctor Who has many female fans. I have seen them dressed as their favourite Doctor. When I saw the video showing the new Doctor, I clicked off. I will no longer watch the series after the Christmas special, nor will I be an enabler to this decision by giving the new Doctor a chance. I am truly hoping for another drop in the ratings. it may be the only way the BBC will be forced to correct this bad decision. Doctor Who, 23 Nov 1963 - 25 Dec 2017. RIP.

Eh. . .so long as the doctor is still quirky and it doesn't get preachy and stuff. . .and the stories are good. . .I'm okay with it.

Still mulling it over and not liking the casting, trying hard to care...In other news: The next season is rumored to be 10 episodes long at an hour each instead of 12 at 45ish min. The Outside and Inside of the Tardis are getting a new makeover as well as a new sonic. I will google to view the changes when the new season starts...im so hoping that when the Doctor changes and sees that he changed into a girl, he immediately pulls a "Romana" and changes into someone else. Or maybe Jodie is a decoy for the real Doctor....perhaps she will only be the doctor for like 2 or 3 episodes and then replaced by anyone else who is male. Like I would sooner see Donald Trump cast as the Doctor... Or Ted Danza... Or the man closest to the stage when the camera starts rolling...a Gaffer even;)

1. First came the best of the best.
Hartnell-Baker: Golden age Classic Doctor Who.
2. Then came J.N.T.(messed with Tom Baker's tenure a little) went down hill a little then a lot...
Davison-McCoy: Silver age Classic Doctor Who.
3. American made Who, Not a bad attempt to revive a franchise! Love Paul!
Paul McGann: Wilderness Classic Doctor Who.
Richard E.Grant: attempted revival of Doctor Who.
4. Excellent revival of Doctor Who! Thanks Russell!
Eccleston-Smith: Golden age Nu-Who. 
Ill used Capaldi (ranks up there with the first four Doctors) scripts for 9&10th seasons not up to par with past Doctor who.
Capaldi: Silver age Nu-Who (season 8 The Clara and Doctor show.
Season 9&10: Bronze age Nu-Who.
5. Whittaker: Pseudo-Who... I'm hoping Re-boot at this point, or maybe retcon her out of existence...either or.

well if they do the 10 60 minute episodes that's going to cause heat ache for commercial broadcasters who will be forced to put the show in an odd time slot (as BBC America and SCI FI did on occasion or edit for time.

I'm curious why 10 episodes unless and this is only speculation and not intended to upset any one who support the Nu Who casting.

Quite simply I think the BBC are partially concerned this might not be as big a success as it appears to be from the out set. Oh sure a lot of people are excited about the next series of Nu Who but others like me are not.


So my guess is the BBC are being cautious and cutting the run of episodes so that if it is a bomb its only a bomb for 10 weeks.

lets not forget Class the last BBC related Dr. Who brain child. It flopped on line and on BBC1 when it was shown.

Dr. Who is a big money maker for the BBC so if there not cutting back for obvious reasons then why are they cutting back on a franchise that makes money for the Corporation, generates sales all over the planet and numerous license's like Big Finish, Character Options, Titan Comics and so on.


Come on BBC time to tell all

And with that said there is often major difference's in what the BBC announces as official policy and the real truth