S6E13: The Wedding of River Song

jaredofmo wrote:

I was a little "NO!" when I saw the Brig's death. I didn't want the Brigadier to be dead in the Whoniverse! But then, it was a great way to pay tribute to Nick Courtney to have the Brig's passing as the thing that brings the Doctor to a full realization of what he needs to do.

Maybe Moff will write in some tribute to Liz Sladen in Series 7. Here's hoping no death of SJS...

EDIT: When we realized the "pay off" of Rory's deaths (Amy actually saves him instead of letting him die), what the Doctor did to survive, we totally cheered.

But... Umm.... Was the Doctor operating the Tesselacta alone at Silencio? I couldn't believe he'd let the operating crew be burned to death by his pyre.

i thought about that too, and my take is they either beamed out to the mother ship, or maybe the ship, or robot, or whatever its classified as lol had the ability to withstand the simple fire, or maybe they have the ability to use their camoflauge aspect to make the body appear burnt up when in fact i was not. these are my two best guesses.

now that i think about it maybe thats why the fbi agents character was there older, i forget his characters name for the life of me right now, because the scilence knew him and he was there to help give cred to the fact that the doc was dead in the presence of the scilence watching on because they new him from the past, and maybe the doc had him there to make the companions believe so that they could do what they needed to do. i always think back to that brilliant tennant davisons children in need skecth to the phrase "wibbly wobbly timey wimey" lol, that children in need sketch was a preview of his whole approach to his who philosophy.

i do have one question about something that either wasn't tied up in this ep or i missed it in all the fast paced blistering dialouge that was going on, but who was the creepy voice in the tardis at the end of the big bang? i can't believe that there is anything that is a throw away in the moffaverse, so did i miss it? if not, any theories? my brain hurts too much right now. i am so excited for this series to come out on dvd! over christmas break from school now all i wanna do is start with "scilence" in the library and then jump straight to the eleventh hour and watch series 5 and 6 back to back to catch all the cool crazy inside stuff you can notice now with even more of the pieces to the puzzle, and the nuaunces to the actors performances. i think it will be fun to see what the characters know, in the situations they're in and how they play it.

hitman hart wrote:

but who was the creepy voice in the tardis at the end of the big bang?

It was Julian Bleach, who played Davros in Series 4.

As to what it meant story-wise, I don't think it was anything other than a way to get the phrase in our heads. Could have been a transmission the Tardis picked up that the Silence broadcasted to put their plan in motion. I doubt it will be brought up again.

On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh,
when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer,
a question will be asked...
A question that must never be answered.
Silence must fall when the question is asked.

I still couldn't take Dorium seriously when he was doing this line... A talking blue head. I hope we get a beheaded figure of him.

Scary i was thinking the following so far

Spoiler:

Pricing based on past figures and sets. (some prices just looked funny)

All a bit pricey, no?

I have one question of note if Amy killed Madame Kovarian in the alternate timeline she still lives in this one right? I assume if that is so her hunt for the Doctor will continue for the next season because she seems to smart not to notice if the Doctor is alive and saving the universe. As always more questions as we get answers. We still have so much to know about River than was really answered. They're married yeah, but how what does that mean? Obviously not a normal marriage, but what kind will it be? River is in love with the Doctor, but is that reciprocated and I just don't mean sex (if that even happens)? This can go many ways and I don't see the Doctor settling down and having that kind of relationship, especially knowing HER death is a fixed point to come. Its been alluded to that the Doctor was engaged enough in his past to have been with someone and had children and obviously a grandchild, but most likely with a fellow TimeLord. Human 1oth Doctor went off to have a romance and life with Rose Tyler, but can this Doctor commit to such a union? I don't think so and if not how does this impact things to come? Hmmmmmm.

An okay ending to the season. Don't think I'm interested in knowing the answer to "who is Doctor who?" as the reveal to that one takes so much fun out of the show. But if this means the Doctor will be a bit more low key for the next season then I'm happy. To have the Doctor worried about just a handful of people instead of trying to save the universe (or specifically Earth) each week will be welcome.

Also a bit miffed that it was stated when the Doctor died at the beginning of the series "yep, that's really the Doctor". We all suspected it was flesh and stated that we'd be furious if that happened. I figured it wasn't flesh because it didn't go all gooey when the astronaut shot the Doctor. But having it be the robot Doctor getting killed still feels like a bit of a cheat. Can't say what answer wouldn't have felt like I was being cheated, but I was hoping Moffat could have had a better one. You could say my expectations were too high so it's my own fault I was left a bit dissatisfied.

Certianly not the best episode of the series, but not as big of a let down as Stolen Earth/Journey's End. The Doctor has a reason to hide much like 1 and 2 did from the Time Lords so I can imagine some good plot developments the writers could use. And this time I welcome a cheat answer to "Doctor who?". Wouldn't it be nice if when Matt Smith decides to leave we could have a real Silence vs Time Lords battle for control ...

squishy wrote:

An okay ending to the season. Don't think I'm interested in knowing the answer to "who is Doctor who?" as the reveal to that one takes so much fun out of the show. But if this means the Doctor will be a bit more low key for the next season then I'm happy. To have the Doctor worried about just a handful of people instead of trying to save the universe (or specifically Earth) each week will be welcome.

Also a bit miffed that it was stated when the Doctor died at the beginning of the series "yep, that's really the Doctor". We all suspected it was flesh and stated that we'd be furious if that happened. I figured it wasn't flesh because it didn't go all gooey when the astronaut shot the Doctor. But having it be the robot Doctor getting killed still feels like a bit of a cheat. Can't say what answer wouldn't have felt like I was being cheated, but I was hoping Moffat could have had a better one. You could say my expectations were too high so it's my own fault I was left a bit dissatisfied.

Certianly not the best episode of the series, but not as big of a let down as Stolen Earth/Journey's End. The Doctor has a reason to hide much like 1 and 2 did from the Time Lords so I can imagine some good plot developments the writers could use. And this time I welcome a cheat answer to "Doctor who?". Wouldn't it be nice if when Matt Smith decides to leave we could have a real Silence vs Time Lords battle for control ...

at the begining of the season, it really was our doctor who was killed. it was only when river changed it in that split second and created the second alternate reality that it became the robot, so in a way i guess it was or it wasn't depending on how you look at it, the first rule of watching this season i think should be wibbly wobbly timmey wimmey. thats kinda one of the aspects i find so fun about it.

Good observation. Maybe it was altered. Now I don't feel so bad about this episode, hitman hart.

But now I do feel bad about contradicting your wishes in the other thread

This is a Promo from Star Trek The Next Generation All Good Things 1994

Any one think its similar ??????

The end of an incredible Legend Draws Near
The Past Present and the Future are about to Collide
And The Fate of all Man Kind Depends on One Man

(this is every Doctor Who Episode)

Mattylover11 there are at least 4 Matt smith figures from this episode get your check book ready lol

BTW: technically, doesn't he still have the cowboy hat? River shot off the one on the robot doctor.

spacetimegeek wrote:

I have one question of note if Amy killed Madame Kovarian in the alternate timeline she still lives in this one right?

I don't think she's alive.... anyone else have an opinion?

I had an interesting experience with this finale. I wound up watching it twice today early in the morning and then early this afternoon.

The first time I watched it I have to admit I was a bit disappointed. I felt like that the whole River storyline was much ado about nothing. I kept expecting something big to happen, but it just seemed so mundane to me.

The second viewing I liked more and I think it was because I knew what was coming up and as a result I was able to keep up with it better. You have to admit there's a lot going on in this episode. I liked being fooled into thinking that the Doctor that was killed was a ganger. I know people are saying Moff indicated that this was indeed the Doctor, but have you forgotten rule #1? The Moff lies. I like that the door is open for the Silence to return. It's cool to see an enemy that the Doctor can't (cough, Daleks, cough) easily defeat. In the end, surprisingly, I'm satisfied with the way River and her relationship to the Doctor was handled. I wouldn't mind seeing her return either. I thought the nod to Nicholas Courtney was pretty classy as well.

I know there are still questions left to answer, but I'm not as irritated about that like I used to be. Go figure.

rmlextreme wrote:

Scary i was thinking the following so far

Spoiler:

Pricing based on past figures and sets. (some prices just looked funny)

Isn't that a bit steep? But don't worry its your parents money! And they'll only spend it on boring stuff. Like clothes and lamps. YA-WN!

Just had to change that a bit. LMAO

I marked "OK" for this episode. I didn't hate it (as much as The Big Bang/The Pandorica Opens), but I didn't like it as much as the Tennant/RTD finale's.

First off, we get a reunion of every character/actor that Moffat can cram on-screen (just like he did in the Pandorica Opens, and I'm really getting tired of "how many actors/characters can we bring together for the finale"). The first half/Alternate reality seemed more like a re-cap show for me, and I thought they could have done much more with the first half hour, instead of reminding us of everything that's happened thus far (No fault to Moffat, though, since he says he's writing for children, and just like the Harry Potter books spend the first part of the book catching up with everything so far, he did the same).

Then we get not a whole lot of answers (yes, Scary, I'm looking at you). We find out nothing about Madame Kavorion, why she personally hates the Doctor, or why she works with/for the Silence, only that she has now be relagated to hired thug status (very disapointing in my eyes, since she was a major part of the first part of this series). We find out nothing new about the Silents: where they come from, who they are, why they have to kill the Doctor (Sorry, I'm just not sold on the Grey/Men in Black X-files looking Aliens whom I can't understand a word they say, which is why they had Madame Kavorian for the audience I'm sure). Anyone remember Julian Sands voice from The Big Bang, don't worry, neither does Moffat (and I swear, if he revisits this in a year or two, it will be the most drawn out plotline since LOST).

We get the "wedding of River Song", but I'm still kind of confused. The Silence went through all the trouble of kidnapping a baby, raising it to kill the Doctor, and one adventure in "Let's Kill Hitler", and now this 50 year old River Song is in love with the Doctor, and doesn't want to kill him anymore??? I don't know what to call that. Either really bad writing, or really bad brainwashing.

Then we get the big reveal. We all knew it would be a cop out. Sure it wasn't the Flesh, but it was still a cop out. Sure, the Doctor needs to lay low, but that means Moffat not bringing back every villain/actor for next years finale, and I"ll bet money that he will.

As far as "Doctor Who", this is a cop out in my opinion as well. I really don't think "We" the audience will find out. But in this future episode, River Song will be present. It is the only way for her to know his name for "The Forest of the Dead".

As much as I'm glad Amy and Rory are gone, who knows how many times he will keep bringing back River Song. Everytime she appears, I call weak writing all over the place, and it's like finding out who Wolverine is: The less known the Better.

All in all it wasn't the worst special ever, but Moffat seriously needs to stay conistent. No more bringing in armies, or a group of villains. If the Doctor is going to stay low, have him face off with one enemie, without a group of "allies" at his side (who knows, maybe he'll actually save the day for once).

Sorry, rant over.

So he is going on the run and staying out of sight in an old Tardis.

And Why not

THATS HOW IT ALL STARTED!!!!!!!


COMING SOON in Christmas 2011 DOCTOR WHO RETURNS

I don't understand how people could say this was a cop out? Did anyone actually expect the Doctor to die without regenerating? When I saw the season premiere, the Doctor's death was the least interesting part because i knew the BBC wouldn't let Moffat kill their cash cow. (Plus an older incarnation still has to give River a sonic.) The only authority to say that it was real Doctor was Canton, a human who met the Doctor once 50 years ago. That man is not a reliable expert on Gallifreyans. The Silence are just scavenger aliens not reality controlling Gods so they can be tricked into believing this deception as fact. You all had to expect that the Doctor wasn't really going to die. It was just a matter of how he was going to find a loophole.
Protecting himself inside the Tesselecta was a wacky yet relatively simple solution. He was always inside of it at the lake since he arranged the fake-out. The fixed point was River shooting the Doctor's Tesselecta armor not River actually permanently killing him. Does everybody remember the non-death in The Stolen Earth? The Doctor gets shot by a Dalek death ray but instead of regenerating he shoots the energy into his severed hand which somehow allows him neither to die nor lose a regeneration. Now that is a major cop out that doesn't make any sense within the parameters of the show's mythology. This actually made sense in that it allowed the Doctor to pretend to die without pissing over the whole concept of regeneration. I can only guess what the RTD solution would've been:
The Doctor's viking funeral restores him back to life with his full remainder of regenerations because Gallifreyans are part Phoenix. It didn't work the Master because ... uh ... never you mind!
I still want to know how and why the Tardis exploded last year, but the episode as a whole was massively entertaining and fun.

The are no fixed points in space and time. Water of Mars indicates this is so. The Time Lords had the "No Interference" rule. The Universe has no such rule.

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:

I don't understand how people could say this was a cop out? Did anyone actually expect the Doctor to die without regenerating?

You all had to expect that the Doctor wasn't really going to die. It was just a matter of how he was going to find a loophole.

Protecting himself inside the Tesselecta was a wacky yet relatively simple solution. He was always inside of it at the lake since he arranged the fake-out.

Exactly.

If he dies for real, the show ends. That's not happening, since we know the series wasn't cancelled. Therefore, the Doc was never in any real danger. He didn't really die, so what we saw was not what it seemed to be. The point from the first ep on was to see what led up to it, and to find out later what really happened.

I thought using the Tesselecta was perfect. A ganger would have been too obvious. A cop out would have been having a time intervention and everything ends up being rewritten and not happening. Everything did happen- the doctor chose to fake his own death and let almost all of the universe think he really is dead ( Incredible Hulk series flashbacks).

Fixed points of time are always a sticky kind of thing that varries from story to story. For the Water of Mars, the fixed point is that Adelaide dies that night but the means & place were mutable.

I agree. I was totally satisfied with the resolution. Obviously, they're not going to end a series that is this popular worldwide. It was really a question of HOW the Dr would survive, not IF he would survive. I liked this series better than series 5 overall, and I really liked series 5.

squishy wrote:

Good observation. Maybe it was altered. Now I don't feel so bad about this episode, hitman hart.

But now I do feel bad about contradicting your wishes in the other thread

dont feel bad! thats why i love this forum because i can geek out on who and have spirited debates with people who are just as passionate about it as i am! if i had a dollar for everytime somebody made me think about something in a new way on here i'd be able to afford all the who toys i ever wanted. lol ive said this before but living in south carolina limits my ability to talk about sci fi and fantasy, and until the invention of the internet it was just me and my same 10 geek friends from highschool that i could even talk about who to so im just thankfull to have all you guys and girls on here. keep up the good work all. it would honestly be pretty boring if we all agreed with each other all the time. lol

kcooper76 wrote:

spacetimegeek wrote:

I have one question of note if Amy killed Madame Kovarian in the alternate timeline she still lives in this one right?

I don't think she's alive.... anyone else have an opinion?

i hesitate to even ponder this, my first instinct was that she died for real too, but then at the end of the episode river comforts amy by saying that she did the murder as an alternate version of herself and in an alternate universe so there is just as much evidence that she could be alive as well. madame kovarian is now schrodingers cat now. lol

For those complaining about Canton's line, "That is most certainly the Doctor," the Doctor WAS there. Miniaturized, but still there.

Still, I guess we can only assume Canton was mistaken when he said, "And he is most certainly dead."