who is river song?

ok, i decided to start an official topic to see what everyone's thoughts are on who river song really is. i never really liked the character, but then i read something today that made me like the character even less. in an interview with radio times they wrote:

When she first took on the part, she spoke of the Doctor being her lover but now she’s not so sure. “I was absolutely certain. That’s what I’d assumed. But when I was reading The Time of Angels, I suddenly thought, “My God, she’s his mother!’ ”

please tell me that's not true. first off, that would make the doctor half human on his mother's side(tvm). second, what was with all the flirting in silence in the library?

i'd rather she be his future wife/girlfriend, or just a time-travelling con-artist who found/stole his real wife's journal. she could even be a future regeneration of jenny, spending time with her father.

if she turns out to be his mother, i declare steven moffat to be a bigger detriment to doctor who than john nathan-turner, and the tv movie, combined ever could be.

I think the her being his mother wouldn't be something they'd let come out in an interview the way it did. It has to be trickery.

I voted con artist, because I just don't trust her. And the con artist part makes me wonder if she is involved with Jack.

I must be one of the few people that loves River Song. Maybe because she reminds me of Bernice Summerfield a little bit. I never bought the idea that she is the Doctor's wife though. After seeing how well educated she is around the TARDIS I was thinking for a second she was Romana. Then I thought wouldn't the Doctor know it was her? I doubt we're going to get any answers in this new series.

Theoretically, he should know any timelord he has met before.

Ronpur wrote:

Theoretically, he should know any timelord he has met before.

Unless they have a hidden pocket watch.

I voted other -- I really don't think River Song is going to be that simple. I hate the idea of her being the Doctor's wife, but after The Time of Angels, I like her character better, and I also think there's more to it. I really don't think she's the Doctor's mother, and Jenny is even less likely. She may be a con artist...and I actually will love it if she turns out to be another time lord who got away!

I wound up voting other because I am truly undecided on it. I know I can rule out Jenny or his mother, as there would probably be something that would give it away.

River being a con-artist is a strong possibility as well as the Doctor's future wife/girlfriend. I have even contemplated the whole Time Lord aspect as a possible explanation as well.

I was just thinking how interesting it would be if River was a Time Lord who either lost or deliberately lost her "pocket watch."

still holding out hopes that this is Romanna- how does she know how to operate the tardis so well- if not romanna has to be a time lord somehow....

greenk9 wrote:

still holding out hopes that this is Romanna- how does she know how to operate the tardis so well- if not romanna has to be a time lord somehow....

I really hope she is Romanna too!

Spoiler:

Although, some people have 'speculated' she may be the Rani. I very much doubt this.

I am watching both episodes now,

Spoiler:

Ronpur wrote:

I am watching both episodes now,

Spoiler:

Well it can't be anyone we know of just yet. My guess is that they'll come into the story sometime soon, perhaps?

Mof also said in Confidential, we will see all of River's story, and it will make sense. I hope he is right!!

so far, none of mof's stories make sense to me, so i'm not looking forward to them. i like a bit of mystery about my characters, but moff is as subtle as j.k. rowling, beating us over the head with clues. i know it's a show for children to watch, but it shouldn't really be dumbed down to harry potter level for everyone else.

Bret, I'm really not sure how to take that after 4 years of RTD. :-)

lol cjschmidt. i know i'm the black sheep of these forums for "getting" rtd's stories. i see how they make sense, in an emotional sense, and in plotline. and i've already said, i loved all of moffat's earlier works(before he became series head). i'm just not feeling the magic like i used to. makes me sad, since i used to look forward to his episodes, because they were the best in the series.

bret_owen99 wrote:

lol cjschmidt. i know i'm the black sheep of these forums for "getting" rtd's stories. i see how they make sense, in an emotional sense, and in plotline. and i've already said, i loved all of moffat's earlier works(before he became series head). i'm just not feeling the magic like i used to. makes me sad, since i used to look forward to his episodes, because they were the best in the series.

I really liked RTD's stories too, and I just don't get why many fans don't...but I really like Moffat's stuff too, so I'm enjoying it all!

I'm looking forward to finding out all about River [and still hoping she's not the Doctor's wife, and I think it's looking less likely], so I'm still pretty excited!

I love RTD - don't get me wrong. I think his over-the-top series finales really soured me on his story telling style (especially series 3). I'm curious, how do you feel about Classic Who?

CJSchmidt wrote:

I love RTD - don't get me wrong. I think his over-the-top series finales really soured me on his story telling style (especially series 3). I'm curious, how do you feel about Classic Who?

I love Classic Who...that's where I started with Tom Baker and Peter Davison...great stuff, but it's been a long time. The Tenth Doctor really brought me back into the fandom altogether. I do have to admit, though, that I generally like over-the-top, so that really mostly only made it better for me.

I must be really weird, I just haven't had a producer, actor or writer I didn't enjoy. Some obviously more than others. I love the difference in all of the styles. Their maybe a few of those episodes I did not enjoy, but oh well. I still love the difference and change!

Ronpur wrote:

I must be really weird, I just haven't had a producer, actor or writer I didn't enjoy. Some obviously more than others. I love the difference in all of the styles. Their maybe a few of those episodes I did not enjoy, but oh well. I still love the difference and change!

I'm totally with you on this one.

I don't know enough about either to really say, "Ohh well I like the Moff era more than the RTD.," because all I'm going on really is just, "I liked this episode, LOVED that one... that one made me shriek... and I did not like that one..."

The whole Moffat vs RTD thing really confuses me.
~

cjschmidt, my first introduction to who was watching tom baker on my local pbs. i then went through the davison years, the baker years(colin), and finally the mccoy years(one of my favorites). i'm one of the few fans who loves the tvm(even for all it's faults, i know). i started collecting vintage who(the first 3), and i love that as well(just a little annoyed at the "clown-like" music in most of pertwee's episodes).

if i was to make a good comparison of my love/hate for moffatt, i would have to bring up tim burton. i used to love time burtons' films. beetlejuice, batman, sleepy hollow, edward scissorhands, all classics. however, when he started getting full controll of his films we got things like: planet of the apes(the original was better), charlie and the chocolate factory(more faithfull to the book, but the first movie will always be remembered), alice in wonderland, and sweeney todd. as much as i would like to enjoy the new tim burton films as much as i did the old ones, i just don't.

there are always ups and downs in doctor who, all fans can agree on that. we can make fun of the "americanized" tv movie. we can say the mccoy years were cheaply made(but i think the quality of the stories made up for it). we can say the colin baker years were not colin baker's fault(but the writer's, and producer's).

after 5 years(yes, i'm counting the specials as a year), i'm just not grooving this year like i have every other year of the new series. do i think matt smith is a good doctory? yes, i've admitted that. however, i think he might be cursed like colin baker was, for taking over from an extremely poppular doctor, and having the misfortune of being steered in the wrong direction. if the end of this series proves me wrong, and redeems all the stories, and threads, i'll be the first to admit it. however, if the quality continues as the way i've seen it(and by ratings, i think it's showing, since i read most people are dvr'ing doctor who, and watching something else on saturday nights now), i think moffatt should be replaced.

i don't mind sitting through one bad series, but i don't think as fans we should have to sit through more(heroes would come to mind).

I reckon Time Lady

bret_owen99 wrote:

...however, if the quality continues as the way i've seen it(and by ratings, i think it's showing, since i read most people are dvr'ing doctor who, and watching something else on saturday nights now), i think moffatt should be replaced.

Oh, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and if you don't like Moffat, that's totally cool. But when you mention ratings, that's a whole 'nother animal; now you're talking numbers and scientific data, which is my (any researcher's really) backyard. And since I get really cheesed off when people interpret data incorrectly to support an argument, I've gotta call foul.

That people are DVRing Doctor Who and watching something else is not a reduction in ratings; people are still watching, they're just time-shifting the show. Unlike America's Nielsen ratings, the British ratings system--the survey methods of which are completely electronic--includes time-shifted shows in the overall weekly ratings, and adjusts daily ratings retroactively as needed. Now, as far as the show's actual performance, some basic research shows that the ratings are comfortably stable.

The Eleventh Hour was tops in its time slot and #3 for the week across all British TV channels. The Beast Below: tops in its time slot, #11 for the week. Victory of the Daleks: #2 in its slot (up against Britain's Got Talent...now show me a TV show in the US that doesn't suffer during key weeks of American Idol or Dancing with the Stars), #11 for the week. The Time of Angels: #2 in its slot (again behind Britain's Got Talent), #12 for the week. Flesh and Stone: #2 in its slot (do I even need to say what #1 was?), and #12 for the week.

So the data indicates that the show is performing consistently after the initial drop-off between the first and second episodes (a drop-off which could have been predicted for any series). These ratings figures demonstrate not a failure for Doctor Who, but the overwhelming ratings dominance of reality television with the modern British TV audience. As proof of this, let's look at the ratings performances just prior to Moffat taking over...

The Next Doctor: #2 behind Wallace and Grommit. (Not reality TV, but as we're about to see, this is an outlier, not the norm...)
Planet of the Dead: #2, behind Britain's Got Talent.
Waters of Mars: #3 behind The X Factor and I'm a Celebrity...Get me Out of Here!
The End of Time, Pt 1: #3 behind The Royle Family and EastEnders.
The End of Time, Pt 2: #1 for the week...only the third time in the history of the series that's ever happened.

The only trends that emerge in this data: the specials were generally rated at #2 or #3, and lost out to reality shows whenever stacked up against them. Furthermore, the 2005-2009 shows (series 1-4 plus the specials) only cracked the weekly Top 10 a mere ten times. Therefore, in terms of audience shares and how the show fares against specific competition, Moffat's Doctor Who is performing right in line with the last of the RTD/Tennant episodes and the revived series overall.

Hard data: a scientist's best friend.

ADDENDUM: Just in case you're curious, and prefer actual numbers to audience shares (even though that's not actually a good scientific comparison), here's how the premiers of each season stack up against one another in raw numbers...

Season 1 (2005): 9.9M
Season 2 (2006): 8.0M
Season 3 (2007): 8.2M
Season 4 (2008): 8.4M
Season 5 (2010): 8.0M

With the exception of that first season's premiere (which had a huge boost due to the novelty factor of Doctor Who being back on British television after being away for so long), that's pretty darned consistent, even in a flawed measuring scheme!