who is river song?

i could be totally wrong but i read somewhere that gillian anderson was the rani. also if she is the rani, why was she still good at the time of her death in the libray two parter, unless that was not her end. shes a fun open ended character, she seems vague but i believe the moff has this well thought out.

The Rani loves knowledge and is able to impersonate people. How better to gain more knowledge than to hang around the Doctor, and how better to hang around him than to impersonate someone close to him?

Perhaps Gillian Anderson is the new true face of the Rani, or another impersonation maybe......

And her death in the library - is she really dead or is she now in the library gathering more knowledge in another form? I mean, after all, she could have survived all this time by unknown means much like the Master survived to come back again and again. Hmmm.......

But that's my theory - we will just have to wait for the story to unfold

Jany

Oh, God... please say she's not Iris Wyldthyme!

I really really really dont want river song to be the doctor's wife.
this whole time i have just been really not into it.
first of all its just not like the doctor to get married and i sort of like the idea that it would stay that way, that its not him. I know it would be in the way future but I am just not sure its who river is.
Plus I feel like they have continually hinted that it IS his wife and I feel like thats just too obvious for Doctor Who. I feel like the camp wants us to think its his wife.. trickery..
I heard a theory the other day how it was Jenny and I really dig that idea.. I think that could be really cool.
just my thoughts.

I too have harbored suspicions about River potentially being a reformed Rani.

Regardless of her real identity, or her relationship with the Doctor, I think it's safe to say she's a Child of Gallifrey. That's not to say she must be a Time Lady (I seem to recall some information that not every Gallifreyian was a Time Lord/Lady), but she knows too much about Time Lord society and her use of High Gallifreyian (Which doesn't strike me as something the Doctor would teach anyone).

Rust wrote:

Regardless of her real identity, or her relationship with the Doctor, I think it's safe to say she's a Child of Gallifrey. That's not to say she must be a Time Lady (I seem to recall some information that not every Gallifreyian was a Time Lord/Lady), but she knows too much about Time Lord society and her use of High Gallifreyian (Which doesn't strike me as something the Doctor would teach anyone).

I like the way you think.
Sister maybe??

I think she is married to the Doctor, but not to our Doctor per se. I keep thinking it could be an alternative universe Doctor or even the Dream Lord/Valeyard Doctor that she is connected to. I can even imagine this Doctor being sweet and nice to River until he reveals his true colors and then she supposedly kills him.

Why the evil Doctor would go after River in the first place is another mystery although I had this thought the other day. Perhaps River is a Time Lady who used the Chameleon Arch to escape the Daleks. Unlike the Doctor and the Master though she chose not to return to her true self.

Who is River's true self? I can easily picture her to be the Rani and I can see this as being revealed to River by the evil Doctor. I can easily imagine River being upset enough about her past self to not want to return to her original self. As an act of defiance and to renounce everything that she did as the Rani, it's simple enough to deduce that she destroys whatever "fob watch" technology there is to insure this never happens.

I still think that she is part of the TARDIS and they are "married" as much as two different entities can be.

interesting theory matesamo. do you think that she is some sort of physical incarnation of the tardis, or at some point the tardis turns into her? it would explain the line "who or what you are"

bret_owen99 wrote:

interesting theory matesamo. do you think that she is some sort of physical incarnation of the tardis, or at some point the tardis turns into her? it would explain the line "who or what you are"

this is good thinking, like someone else said it would explain them being married.. cause he truly loves the tardis... it could also explain her line in Time of Angels when she says she learned from the best (referring to learning to fly the tardis) and when matt smith gets all smug she says its a shame you were busy that day. just a thought, reading deeper than surface on that one i know!
I am not sure if it would explain their meetings though...

Hmmm, since TARDISes are grown, and with Compassion from the stories actually being a humanoid one.... The idea of what would The TARDIS sound like if it spoke, sounds FANTASTIC!

Matesamo wrote:

I still think that she is part of the TARDIS and they are "married" as much as two different entities can be.

Oh, wow! 12 posts and you come up with that theory!!! Don't go anywhere, we need you here!!!

i wonder if we'll actually see the scene where he gives his sonic screwdriver to her, before she goes to the library. after this series, i think smith could pull off that touching farewell scene.

bret_owen99 wrote:

i wonder if we'll actually see the scene where he gives his sonic screwdriver to her, before she goes to the library. after this series, i think smith could pull off that touching farewell scene.

He has to rebuild it now, but yes, that would be sad!

I do not think she is the Rani because the Rani would not save the doctor by sacrificing herself. She did not seem very reformable to me from what I saw.

What do we know for sure?

1. She knows the doctor's real name.
2. The doctor can only reveal his real name under specific circumstances.
3. She admits to killing a great man.
4. She knows how to contact the doctor
5. She knows how to fly the Tardis, even better than the doctor
6. She went from a doctor to a professor
7. She was free by the time of her meeting with the 10th doctor.
8. She has all the doctor's incarnations in her book, but admits to not having met them all in order.
9. she did not seem surprised at meeting the tenth doctor for the first time.
10. her last meeting with the doctor was his first meeting with her.
11. She has since met him at the crash of the byzantin and at the pandorica. events that happened in reverse order in her timeline
12. she's kinda hot in a naughty way.
13. She flirted with him in both the silence of the library and time of the angels episodes (not sure about pandorica yet haven't seen it yet).
14. she posed as cleopatra


This all adds up to one conclusion. . .I have no freakin idea who or what she is! However, I will offer up some guesses.

1. Not a wife, Jenny, or other relative, not the Rani for sure. perhaps a good friend or future companion whose destiny is so intertwined with the doctor's that its impossible for him to avoid her.
2. The man she killed was either the doctor (i.e. causes a regeneration which makes the authorities believe that she killed the previous version as they are unaware of the process of regeneration) or some other smuck who appeared to be a great man, but was on the verge of destroying reality or something.
3. Other ideas about the man she killed could be an accidental death, or one she did and the doctor found he could not forgive her for like Harriet jones.
4. Not a timelord.
5. her first meeting with him will be his last?
6. When all is said or done, we'll be getting our dvds out and watching the episodes in her timeline's order!

What if she "killed" Dr 11 (or 12)?????

amagon wrote:

What if she "killed" Dr 11 (or 12)?????

extremely possible. as we are currently seeing things going backward from her point of view, have not seen her 2nd to last meeting with the doctor yet, we should know who she kills very soon. Unless of course she is going to break out of prison everytime he needs her or she him. . .

I personally would like to have moffit go back further in her timeline to before she killed the man she killed. perhaps she has a darker past than just murder. . .one that the doctor sets aright, only to have her kill someone for whatever reaons. . .

hmmmm. . . .

timewarrior wrote:

amagon wrote:

What if she "killed" Dr 11 (or 12)?????

extremely possible. as we are currently seeing things going backward from her point of view, have not seen her 2nd to last meeting with the doctor yet, we should know who she kills very soon. Unless of course she is going to break out of prison everytime he needs her or she him. . .

I personally would like to have moffit go back further in her timeline to before she killed the man she killed. perhaps she has a darker past than just murder. . .one that the doctor sets aright, only to have her kill someone for whatever reaons. . .

hmmmm. . . .

We haven't seen her first meeting with the Doctor yet! That could be the big story.

The River Song series of books!!!!

Or, the "Great Man" she kills is the author behind "Silence Will Fall".

She knows how to fly the TARDIS, learned from the Best, but the Doctor was busy the day she learned. Someone out there is trying to make new TARDIS. Similarly, someone out there also knows how to take remote control of the TARDIS. I don't think it's coincidence between the two.

If so, River's Origin might intertwine with who was responsible for the attempt to destroy the Universe.

I think she will be the one that causes the next regeneration. In Series 5 they said she killed a very good man. I think she had killed the doctor. That will be his next regeneration.

Rocco wrote:

I think she will be the one that causes the next regeneration. In Series 5 they said she killed a very good man. I think she had killed the doctor. That will be his next regeneration.

Hmmm. This makes me think about how it was mentioned that Smith was going to be around for a certain amount of time. I can't remember if it's two or three years that he has a contract for. I wonder if the end of his contract will find the Doctor not only regenerating but River the cause of it like you wrote. It's possible that River thinks she killed him and doesn't know the Doctor survives because he regenerates out of her view much like Jenny did with him.

Now I'm thinking that River is not the Rani, but she's Romana for some reason. I'm also thinking that perhaps River is an entirely different character as well. She doesn't have to be the Doctor's wife but she could be the Doctor's first love from his academy days. This would explain how she knows his real name.

We like to think the Doctor is the Great Man River kills, because the Doctor is a great man.

But this latest season showcased the fact that many races view the Doctor as the most bloodthirsty monster in all existence.

So does the Doctor qualify? Especially since the Bishop knew the Great Man at least peripherally, but did not know of the Doctor?

I'm beginning to suspect this "Great Man" is whoever was behind "Silence Will Fall" (As next season is supposed to deal heavily with River Song, and it also will - hopefully - wrap up whoever was behind the attempt on the Universe).

Ok here goes

I think River Song is the Rani and not only her but also Amy Pond.
So here you have 2 incarnations of the
Rani working independently of
eachother to a common outcome which
could spell the death of the Doctor.

But which Doctor?

Maybe she killed the 8th Doctor in the
Time War as the Rani which would be
the first time they met being his last.

what if rory is the "great man" river song kills?