S5E3: Victory of the Daleks (SPOILERS)

Interesting episode, I might have to watch it again to appreciate the storyline a little more. There were some elements I didn't care for (guy was a bomb, and trying to convince him he was human to disable the bomb). The Dalek redesign is too fat looking, though, especially looking at them sideways. Might have been better to have tweaked the 2005 updated design than to make a new one that looks more disproportionate. Maybe in two years they'll redesign themselves, realizing they have an inferior design

bret_owen99 wrote:

the cons
1.once again amy saves the day(i know she's for the audience, but we don't need to save the day every week, that's why we watch the doctor)
2.the sonic screwdriver was useless(why did he build a new one if he's not going to use it, and don't tell me he's "breaking it in" like he is the type 40 tardis).


.

On both of these points, I hope Amy doesn't become the Wesley Crusher of Doctor Who.....unless her figuring things out, and saving the day is part of the "crack thread"

And I am pleased the sonic is not being used as a save all crutch.

And speaking of Type 40 (nice to hear that again!) How is it he turns up 30 days late at the start, but yet hop from the Dalek Saucer to the War Room with no problem? Or is that just the TARDIS being the TARDIS and doing what she wants too!!

Oh, and where can we buy Jammie Dodgers in the US!!??

Ronpur wrote:

bret_owen99 wrote:

the cons
1.once again amy saves the day(i know she's for the audience, but we don't need to save the day every week, that's why we watch the doctor)
2.the sonic screwdriver was useless(why did he build a new one if he's not going to use it, and don't tell me he's "breaking it in" like he is the type 40 tardis).


.

On both of these points, I hope Amy doesn't become the Wesley Crusher of Doctor Who.....unless her figuring things out, and saving the day is part of the "crack thread"

And I am pleased the sonic is not being used as a save all crutch.

And speaking of Type 40 (nice to hear that again!) How is it he turns up 30 days late at the start, but yet hop from the Dalek Saucer to the War Room with no problem? Or is that just the TARDIS being the TARDIS and doing what she wants too!!

Oh, and where can we buy Jammie Dodgers in the US!!??

Im guessing he has no trouble moving in space if he has a fixed time,but es not good at narrowing down a time period.

Speaking of which, am I the only person who realized that that was a cookie right off the bat? I mean, I'm a cookie fiend... but c'mon, that was obviously a cookie. You don't need a scan to recognize a bloody cookie!

Ronpur: I've never seen that brand in the US (though you might try specialty food markets; I've found Jelly Babies in those places), but you can take your pick of shortbread cookies with jelly centers.

Wes Crayon wrote:

Speaking of which, am I the only person who realized that that was a cookie right off the bat? I mean, I'm a cookie fiend... but c'mon, that was obviously a cookie. You don't need a scan to recognize a bloody cookie!

Ronpur: I've never seen that brand in the US (though you might try specialty food markets; I've found Jelly Babies in those places), but you can take your pick of shortbread cookies with jelly centers.

"alright,its a jammy dodger,but I was promised tea!"
They've never seen a jammy dodger,they couldn't know.

i realized it was a cookie right off the bat. but the daleks, they can't really see, not like you or me, so that's why he said no scans. it just seemed like something that one of the old doctor's would have done. who else would hold up daleks with a cookie?

Yeah, that was the best thing he's ever done to a Dalek, I think. I also recognized it as a cookie right away, though I wasn't sure at first if it was an actual cookie.

Wes, those Daleks should have recognized the cookie -- they probably served them along with tea inside the war room!

Very fun episode. Loved the big Star Wars-y dogfight in space.

I may be in the minority here but I REALLY dig the new multi-color Daleks. (I hope CO is on the case as we speak!)

A) I simply love the different colors, gives them a decidedly retro feel. They're also very smooth and sleek, not a lot of seams or plating. As much as I liked the RTD-era Daleks, they were just a tad too over designed for my taste. These news ones are simpler yet somehow meaner looking.

B)LOVED the scene where basically the Moffat Daleks destroyed the RTD Daleks as if to say we're really in a whole new ballgame now.

ok call me crazy- but I do ove the new dalek design...takes me back to the 60's. The little girl inside me was squealing over them...got a real 60's feel. I did really just turn off the cynical adult inside my brain and just watch this one for pure joy and I enjoyed this episode- fav so far for series 5. Love the yellow one- heck I always loved the daleks so I am quite biased. I am a big fan of historical eps so I would give this one an 9 out of 10. Liked how 11 ripped the pepperpot-and got quite a laugh at the daleks serving tea.

greenk9 wrote:

ok call me crazy- but I do ove the new dalek design...takes me back to the 60's. The little girl inside me was squealing over them...got a real 60's feel. I did really just turn off the cynical adult inside my brain and just watch this one for pure joy and I enjoyed this episode- fav so far for series 5. Love the yellow one- heck I always loved the daleks so I am quite biased. I am a big fan of historical eps so I would give this one an 9 out of 10. Liked how 11 ripped the pepperpot-and got quite a laugh at the daleks serving tea.

Having finally seen this episode, I have to say I loved it. The music was great. I had no problems with it, and it did not overpower any of the Doctor's speech as others have complained about. Everything was very well balanced. However, I will admit, of the three episodes so far, this was by far the best scored episode. The music helped magnify all the feelings of the situation, from emotions, to tension and everything else. I hope that if/when they release series 5 score, that a good portion of this music is on there.

The new Daleks certainly go back to the Classic Daleks, and look really good. The design has grown on me immensely and the colors used to designate various classifications for them is great.

I laughed everytime the Daleks appeared at the mention of the name "Ironside" offering Tea. They were real busy bodies, ready to answer at a moments notice for anything. Of course, The whole cookie bluff was great, and the moment he pulled it out, I was laughing. The fact that the "inferior" Daleks believed him was funny, and the new ones were smart. They called his bluff, and forced him to change tactics.

Of course, then there was the whole Spitfire in space deal. Loved it. I couldn't sit still through out this episode. I'm glad the new Daleks managed to escape and will be looking forward to their return.

bret_owen99 wrote:

ok, people, i'm joining this discussion, and this is going to be a long one.....

I LOVED THIS EPISODE. i said it. i think this is the best episode so far in the new series/season.

the pros
1. no little kids
2. no nursery rhymes(did it really contribute in the beast below?)
3. a real enemy(not a giant whale, or grumpy robots, or even a wierd space eel).

the cons
1.once again amy saves the day(i know she's for the audience, but we don't need to save the day every week, that's why we watch the doctor)
2.the sonic screwdriver was useless(why did he build a new one if he's not going to use it, and don't tell me he's "breaking it in" like he is the type 40 tardis).


overall, i say the pros overweigh the cons(that's a short list, i know). i really likes the story(written by the brilliant, mark gattiss). the daleks are so evil they even exterminate themselves. i've been waiting for that for awhile.

the doctor held them up with a cookie. loved that. they needed the doctor because they were not recognised as true daleks. loved that. liked how they worked amy forgetting about the daleks. which leads me to believe that either the time lords will return(to wipe everyone's minds, like they used to do in the old series), or amy is somehow out of time(since she didn't experience the stolen earth).

and scarywood, have you not seen the first series/season with christopher eccleston?? there was an episode called dalek, where the doctor really showed his anger. he pointed a gun at his companion, just to get to the dalek. i don't think the doctor's shown more anger than in that episode.

i only hope that the rest of series 5 picks up the pace, and keeps good storytelling like this, instead of going back to dropdeadfred/harrypotter/twilight ripoffs that moffatt likes to do. sorry, first two episodes were awfull. this one made up for them though.

My speculation on why Amy doesn't remember the whole Stolen Earth deal is a result of the last episode where she wiped her memory. Sure certain things stuck with her, like her knowing the Doctor and what not, but like all things, other memories were probably lost and forgotten, such as her knowledge of the Daleks.

As for the crack (and I know I saw a post about it somewhere in this thread but can't find it now) it's kind of like the whole "Bad Wolf" and Torchwood theme that would always appear in every episode before revealing its purpose at the end. While I'm sure Amy has some connection to it, since it had first appeared at the beginning of "Eleventh Hour" and now is everywhere they go, I'm sure it will be revealed somewhere near the end of the series as to what it relates to. We just need to be patient.

I have to agree with you Bret, the episode "Dalek" in series 1 the 9th Doctor really showed his hatred for the Daleks. This episode does not compare with that level of hatred and anger. Of course, back then he was still relatively fresh from the Time War and so his pain and anguish was still very raw, and it showed.

As for Amy, its nice to have a companion who is actively doing something to help. Though, while I agree, the Doctor needs to do more of the saving than Amy, its nice to see a companion who isn't brooding over the fact that the Doctor is stuck on someone else (like Martha did at times) or trying to get him to admit that he loves her or something.

beep wrote:

And I am pleased the sonic is not being used as a save all crutch.

And speaking of Type 40 (nice to hear that again!) How is it he turns up 30 days late at the start, but yet hop from the Dalek Saucer to the War Room with no problem? Or is that just the TARDIS being the TARDIS and doing what she wants too!!

It is nice to see the Doctor not relying on the sonic all the time for everything. While it was nice, it was like he was becoming dependent upon it.

As for the TARDIS, its pretty much the TARDIS doing what she wants to some degree. The other part is the fact that once he finally arrived and managed to become a part of the events, the TARDIS is locked to that moment for the time that it needs to be. That is why he can hop back and forth from the Dalek saucer like he does, but his late arrival was due to the fact that he had to travel there from another place/time, and the TARDIS, doing she does is never exactly on time.

Clavius wrote:

Very fun episode. Loved the big Star Wars-y dogfight in space.

I may be in the minority here but I REALLY dig the new multi-color Daleks. (I hope CO is on the case as we speak!)

A) I simply love the different colors, gives them a decidedly retro feel. They're also very smooth and sleek, not a lot of seams or plating. As much as I liked the RTD-era Daleks, they were just a tad too over designed for my taste. These news ones are simpler yet somehow meaner looking.

B)LOVED the scene where basically the Moffat Daleks destroyed the RTD Daleks as if to say we're really in a whole new ballgame now.

Definitely have to agree with you here. While there may be a minority of people who like the new design, it doesn't mean we are wrong. It is nice to see something new, and Moffat's destruction of the RTD Daleks really sends the message that he is in control now.

Plus the newer design is taller that the RTD Daleks were.

Really enjoyed this episode!!! I loved the brightly colored Daleks, and although I'm only a sporadic collector, I am so buying a blue one!!!

I loved the bit with the cookie, and pretty much everything else! I wanna know why Amy can't remember...I suspect it's more than missing stuff due to hangover, etc., the way Donna did...

lol@vicki : Doctor Who+The Hangover=Comedy Gold

artanyus wrote:

Clavius wrote:

Very fun episode. Loved the big Star Wars-y dogfight in space.

I may be in the minority here but I REALLY dig the new multi-color Daleks. (I hope CO is on the case as we speak!)

A) I simply love the different colors, gives them a decidedly retro feel. They're also very smooth and sleek, not a lot of seams or plating. As much as I liked the RTD-era Daleks, they were just a tad too over designed for my taste. These news ones are simpler yet somehow meaner looking.

B)LOVED the scene where basically the Moffat Daleks destroyed the RTD Daleks as if to say we're really in a whole new ballgame now.

Definitely have to agree with you here. While there may be a minority of people who like the new design, it doesn't mean we are wrong. It is nice to see something new, and Moffat's destruction of the RTD Daleks really sends the message that he is in control now.

Plus the newer design is taller that the RTD Daleks were.

I forget where I read this but the RTD Daleks were intentionally designed to have the eyestalks at eye-level with Rose, whereas the Moffat Daleks are now meant to see eye-to-eye with Matt.

Dalek eystalks have been at basically the same level since 1963. Up or down a bit as they refit wheels and fenders on the props, but otherwise the same.

I like the clean, colorful appearance of the new Daleks. Much like the 1960's movie Daleks. What I don't much care for is that the proportions of the new Daleks are all out of whack. Much too tall and especially the skirt is now too tall. The "spare tire" around the middle makes them look like a poor 1980's knock off toy. And the profile? They're now "hunchbacks" as I've seen mentioned elsewhere. They could have been much better so I'm hoping the props are "corrected" before they appear again.

What was so "unpure" about the current Daleks? The "human" daleks from Bad Wolf were destroyed. These dudes where the ones who hated their own DNA. "Real" daleks from the Cult of Skaro were impotent to reproduce but did save Davros who could remake the Daleks from his own flesh (and maybe genuine Caan). I'd think the Davros Daleks would be quite happy with their DNA coming from a real Kaled source. Not sure where the "progenitor" came from and how it could have even better DNA.

from the tardis wikia
"The Daleks seen since series 1 were designed so that the eye stalk lined up with Billie Piper's eyes. The new Daleks are designed to match Karen Gillan's height"

Karen Gillan is really tall, 5'11, I hadn't really noticed it until I saw her walking down the hall with the Doctor and W.C.

hey squishy, imo, the daleks were unpure BECAUSE they were all from davros. they weren't different. they were sort of like cheap knock-offs of an original kaled source. like clones, not as good as the original. the progenitor could have had original genetic code to make each dalek different, thus more like the originals that were made out of different kaleds. sort of like the white dalek seemed to be in charge with a deeper voice, while the other's had lower voices.

Oh goody. Now we have M&M Daleks. I know Moffat is trying to move the show forward but so far it ain't working for me. Don't like the revamped theme, the poor Tardis is overdone, the SFX are sub par at times and I'm just not feeling 11 so far. Once again, the show is showing its origins (e.g., made in the UK in two consecutive episodes). Can we please have them land elsewhere in Europe already. It's bad enough the Tardis seems to always be late now but always landing in British 'waters' is a bit much. This episode just bored me for the most part. Looks like I'm in the minority here.

I'm hoping the upcoming two parter will improve things.

At least they got off Earth in Ep. 2......on Starship UK! Wow. Another empty warehouse.

m and m daleks....mr. owl? sounds tasty.

bret_owen99 wrote:

hey squishy, imo, the daleks were unpure BECAUSE they were all from davros. they weren't different. they were sort of like cheap knock-offs of an original kaled source. like clones, not as good as the original. the progenitor could have had original genetic code to make each dalek different, thus more like the originals that were made out of different kaleds. sort of like the white dalek seemed to be in charge with a deeper voice, while the other's had lower voices.

I'll concede that real "Genesis of the Daleks" variety of the Daleks would be the "most pure" and a later batch from Davros might not be ideal. But where the heck did they find the Progenitor? All the Timelords and Daleks were locked in the Time War. Except for the one Dalek in "Dalek", and the Emperor from "Bad Wolf", and those sneaky Cult of Skaro chaps, the Master popped up, and who's to say Caan didn't rescue more than just Davros from the Time War. It appears that the writers can now just pluck whatever they want without much explanation. The whole Gallifrey showing up in "End of Time" may now be an excuse to let anything you want back into the show. My vote is for some "Day of the Daleks" models to show up and kick the new hunchback's butts.

I can't honestly vote on whether or not I liked it. I spent most of the episode extremely upset and when the ironsides and gold Dalek were destroyed I cried.

I think I shouldn't have created Flak VII so soon and put such character and storyline into him because all I saw in that scene was my Dalek getting destroyed and it upset me to no end.


...I am such a child sometimes...
~

I liked this episode a great deal, just as I'm enjoying the heck out of this new series. Frankly, Doctor Who fans tend to take this show too seriously sometimes, as do all fanbases across the sci-fi landscape (cough, cough...Trekkers...cough, cough). This new era is giving us a wonderful iteration of the Doctor, a delightfully spunky companion, and some whacked-out, devil-may-care stories that strike me as exactly the sort of thing the old series would've done had the budget been there.

I love Doctor Who--really, I do--but in all honesty, it's always been kind of a goofy show. That's part of its charm! Let's look at some greatest hits, shall we?

1. Robot dog. I'll say that again: ROBOT DOG.
2. Ruthless enemies who will kill unnamed and/or minor characters without compunction, yet are always vulnerable to off-the-cuff speech-making when it comes time to kill the heroes.
3. Crap science. Tons and tons of crap science that was never especially accurate (not even when Bidmead was around).
4. Deus ex machina all over the place.
5. Human-shaped bombs that can be defused by reminding them of their "innate" humanity.

Doctor Who is a goofy show, and that's part of why I love it. If I want deep introspection and a moody examination of the human condition against the backdrop of space, I'll watch Battlestar Galactica. When I want to see a fast-talking genius travel through time and match wits with multi-colored Daleks that look like something straight out of the 1960s, I'll watch Doctor Who.

Geronimo!