S5E3: Victory of the Daleks (SPOILERS)

where did the genesis ark come from? where did rassilon come from? why ask why, try bud dry.

The Genesis Ark came from the void, which was ostensibly outside of the Time War.

By the way, a question for those of you who liked this episode -- what did you think of the Daleks in Manhattan episodes? The more I think about it, the more I think I prefer even that rubbish to this episode. Lightning-transmitted DNA is about as stupid as talking a bomb out of exploding, and at least those episodes weren't so rehashed that they might as well have cribbed entire developments and dialogue chunks from previous new series episodes.

I despised Daleks in Manhattan and Evolution of the Daleks...in fact, I rank them among my all-time least favorite DW episodes. They were really no dopier than, say, the entire Colin Baker era (oh, snap!), but as an historian I have a real passion for the Depression period, and I felt the show totally botched its chance at some good SF/drama set in 1930s America.

As for which is dumber: lightning-transmitted DNA or talking the bomb out of exploding, well, to quote Frank Zappa, things are "dumb all over, a little ugly on the side." At least talking the bomb out of exploding gave the Whoniverse a potentially interesting new character to play with, while demonstrating at the same time that the Doctor has dumped a lot of the inherent fear and suspicion he seemed to be carrying around in his last two incarnations (Eccleston might have destroyed the Professor, and Tennant would've given him that look he gives when telling people/things they are "just wrong").

Now, the rehash thing, that's a fair cop. But I would "counter" that this is precisely why the Daleks need retired for a couple of years; the obligation to use them in every series has weakened the overall Dalek saga. Sure, I liked this episode, and I like that it left the Daleks in a better place than it found them, but it was what it was.

i liked the daleks in manhattan episodes, but weren't they in a way a ripoff of the evil of the daleks(i said in a way). all dalek stories are the same. doctor shows up, daleks evil, doctor wins, daleks get away somehow(even if he or the audience doesn't know it).

i actually think this was the freshest dalek episode since "dalek". i don't consider the bad wolf daleks true daleks. daleks in manhattan was good, but it was more about sec, and the hybrids than the dalek race. journey's end was more about davros and the doctordonna than the dalek race. this was the first story to re-energize the daleks and the fact that they will not die, and they will wipe out everything inferior(even themselves).

i like the new design. i like the fact that maybe they have a machine now that can create proper daleks. i like the daleks when they are just nameless armies. no davros. no cult of skaro. no hybrid humans. just plain old evil daleks.

they were so evil in fact, that they dressed up in union jacks, making people think they were going to be good. how evil is that?

And the new ones killed the old ones because of racial purity!! That is evil!!

Ronpur wrote:

And the new ones killed the old ones because of racial purity!! That is evil!!

well, I know I'm on the right track then with the Daleks hunting down Gemini for being impure because of his size... racial purity, genocide... gives a chilling image to go along with the Daleks' little "seig heil" salutes during "The Dalek Invasion of Earth" story...
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Or them speaking German in Journey's End

Ronpur wrote:

Or them speaking German in Journey's End

I'll admit, I squeed really loud when that happened.

It's why I have no problem imagining that my Dalek Flak VII speaks fluent German and often yells at the Doctor or others in German.
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Ronpur wrote:

Or them speaking German in Journey's End

That was one of the best parts of the show for me. Nothing like being as excited as a kid in a candy store and shouting in excitement.

The only reason I voted for what I did was simply this:

Daleks + WWII + Spitfires in Space = AWESOME!!

Could have lived without:
-Doctor beating on helpless Ironside (if it really was just an ironside than it goes to show that 11 really is insane)
-New Daleks destroying the 3 remaining old Daleks

I'm a sap, I cried through both of those scenes as they were quite upsetting for me. :/
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Ronpur wrote:

WW2 and the Daleks and Churchill! What could possibly go wrong!!

Colorful Daleks could be that element!
They went from looking like giant pepper pots to full blown colorful kitchen appliances.

cinnur wrote:

Ronpur wrote:

WW2 and the Daleks and Churchill! What could possibly go wrong!!

Colorful Daleks could be that element!
They went from looking like giant pepper pots to full blown colorful kitchen appliances.

I regret asking that question a little!!

Ronpur wrote:

I regret asking that question a little!!

Sorry

However, some of us really like the colourful Daleks. Look at the two movies, they were brightly coloured and I thought they were magnificent! I didn't think that they were less scary, just colourful.
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I'm not sure I love the new mighty morphine power daleks, but I certainly don't hate them either. Victory seemed like a light fun episode to reset the Daleks and have a little fun.

I really think Moffat has a good handle on keeping the show goofy without most of the embarrassing cringe-worthy moments RTD was so fond of.

I don't mind the colors myself, I just don't like the humpback, the round huge bumper, the way the gun arm section juts out way too far and the spare tire look in the center. everything else I can live with. Even the vent on the back (which I am sure we will see it do something in the future)

I do prefer RTD's Daleks though and feel that they could have just altered the colors on those for a great look. This "making them taller to look Smith in the eyes" idea was not very good to me, the Daleks always had to look up to people, the Doctor included. It made them more scary that they were these little death machines.

Seriously! It's not nice to say that something can only be intimidating when it's taller than its opponent. That's just silly! The scariest member of our flight happened to be the shortest female in the group who was also the quietest! I always loved the Daleks for being small and deadly. Now they are big, weird, and deadly.

I'm still hoping that the Daleks we saw were "supremes" of their particular rank and that the ones who follow will be toned down, a lot. Then maybe those ones can turn around and EXTERMINATE the big ones... just as they exterminated the former Daleks.

I maintain that there were other Daleks that survived. After all, Daleks are the roaches of the universe...
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a1cmustangpilot wrote:

I maintain that there were other Daleks that survived. After all, Daleks are the roaches of the universe...
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I agree with you on this, I mean we know tons of them are in the void with the Cybermen and we know that a lot of the Cybermen escaped, so the Bronze Daleks can too. Sadly though, I don't think Moff cares.

It seems a bit odd for them to have colors when all they seem to see is blue through their lens.

They look less like a battle ready machine and more like a drink mixer.
It would also seem that change showed in the "Dalek" episode when the mid section turns independent to fire at opponents appears to be gone in this latest revision.

cinnur wrote:

It seems a bit odd for them to have colors when all they seem to see is blue through their lens.

They look less like a battle ready machine and more like a drink mixer.
It would also seem that change showed in the "Dalek" episode when the mid section turns independent to fire at opponents appears to be gone in this latest revision.

I think I like the fact that it can't turn its midsection.

This will hopefully provide more people hiding behind the Daleks and giving them yet another weakness. But perhaps that backpanel is meant as a protection for that.

At any rate, I still LOVE the colours and hope they keep the colours up, but vary them a bit.
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How do we know that the new Daleks can't turn their midsections? I don't think most of the actual Dalek models allowed for that (correct me if I'm wrong, but it looked like CGI when it happened in "Dalek"), so that they didn't swivel in this ep doesn't necessarily mean that they can't.

I kinda hope that they can -- and that the toys can as well.

Wes Crayon wrote:

How do we know that the new Daleks can't turn their midsections? I don't think most of the actual Dalek models allowed for that (correct me if I'm wrong, but it looked like CGI when it happened in "Dalek"), so that they didn't swivel in this ep doesn't necessarily mean that they can't.

I kinda hope that they can -- and that the toys can as well.

I am just guessing based on the new look.

a1cmustangpilot wrote:

At any rate, I still LOVE the colours and hope they keep the colours up, but vary them a bit.
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I still want to now see a pink Dalek come from around the corner yelling "Exterminate!"
That will be a laugh.

.... ..... .....
ok i nod to crochet owl as you pointed out the m&m reference. That what I thought of especially with their current vote for your favorite color ad campaign. I like all the colors but having the whole rainbow appear at once was startling.
Also to go with this I did not like the new new daleks overall design and would almost like to refer to these as "hunchback" daleks.

My favorite was the WWII camo paint job as I custom painted one of mine like this ages ago thinking it made perfect sense.

My son pointed out how star wars the whole space seen was."help us doctor your our only hope", I disable the deflector shield so the corsair rogue squadron can make a run and destroy the dalek death star?!? really I mean really that borders on blatant plagarism.

Dratho you also pointed out is the "crack" being left behind by the doctor everywhere he goes or is it already where he ends up?

basically wanted to be, but ended up being not impressed.

cinnur wrote:

a1cmustangpilot wrote:

At any rate, I still LOVE the colours and hope they keep the colours up, but vary them a bit.
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I still want to now see a pink Dalek come from around the corner yelling "Exterminate!"
That will be a laugh.

I am in the process of doing a custom Dalek that is pink...

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