S5E13: The Big Bang

retrodude wrote:

ok im going out there and sayin it i LOVE RIVERSONG.

YANA

At the wedding, why would the kid's tables have a bottle of wine on them?? lol

Just though that was funny!

Maybe Rory knew (subconsciously of course ) Amy was going to make a scene and decided to ply the kids with drink in case things needed to be quietly explained away.

ReverendKain wrote:

Maybe Rory knew (subconsciously of course ) Amy was going to make a scene and decided to ply the kids with drink in case things needed to be quietly explained away.

Actually, now that I thought about it, maybe it was to get them to do the Doctor Dance!!

Was it wine or was it sparkling Grape Juice?

well, at least the kids were able to get between amy and the doctor. even after she was married she was still trying to get a snog. i know i don't like rory, but the poor guy deserves a better woman.

Eh. Hopefully being legally hitched will slow her wild ways down.

Though I do agree, I miss Donna. It was nice going a season without the companion trying to get into the Doctor's pants.

agreed. i loved donna as the companion(closest thing to a "classic" companion in my opinion). although i honestly say, i wouldn't mind snogging donna.

I think that's probably why she's attractive. She's not trying to snog everyone she comes across.

Though in complete fairness to Amy, outside the occasional lapses in judgment, she's not a bad companion. And she treats Rory a heck of a lot better then Rose ever treated Mickey. heck, the Doctor treats Rory better then he treated Mickey!

bret_owen99 wrote:

agreed. i loved donna as the companion(closest thing to a "classic" companion in my opinion). although i honestly say, i wouldn't mind snogging donna.

i agree as well, on the companion thing not the snogging, i thought donna was great! i thought she brought out the best in tennant. the scene where they first see each other in partners in crime was classic!

Rust wrote:

heck, the Doctor treats Rory better then he treated Mickey!

True, but Ten treated Mickey pretty well. Nine, however, was a different story.

========================================
...^o^CORVUS^o^
Doctor Who: The Winds of Time

The way Nine treated Mickey never sat well with me. It was funny at first, but it quickly came to remind me of Six's relationship with Peri early on: too many snarky things said in moments that just made you feel for the recipient of said snark. I think if Nine had been around for another season, he'd have softened on the poor guy. One of the things I love about Eleven is that he is very much the opposite, and treats Rory with respect and even, it seems, a spirit of friendship. Y'know, like the Doctor usually treats his companions.

Ten was nicer to Mickey than Nine had been, but the finest moment in that relationship actually took place in the DWM comic strip, in the story on which the Eleventh Doctor episode "The Lodger" is based. Ten ends up living with Mickey for a while (instead of Eleven living with a new character, as happened in the TV version), and hilarity ensues. Check it out, even if you've already seen the episode...the two are totally different experiences. "The Lodger" is one of the best one-part DWM comics stories.

Granted the Ninth Doctor did treat Ricky Mickey poorly, but you have to remember where the Doctor was emotionally at this point. Not that I'm making excuses up for him, but he had just been through a tragic war where he witnessed all of his people destroyed. I'm sure he was going through some form of PTSD by the time he met Rose.

Rose was the Doctor's bridge back to "humanity" and I think deep down inside, whether the Doctor was aware of it or not, he didn't want to lose Rose because of this. I'm sure there are other reasons too besides that for why he wanted Rose around though. Mickey, Jack and Adam were threats to the Doctor not romantic wise but security wise. Mickey got the brunt of most of the Doctor's antagonism because he had a very established relationship with Rose and he wouldn't let her be free either.

Notice in the new series how Rory does the opposite with Amy. In the beginning he wasn't too thrilled with the situation, but now he goes where Amy goes with little comment. As far as the way the Doctor treats him, the Doctor has evolved emotionally and physically since he first met Rose which makes all the difference.

jfh1970 wrote:

Granted the Ninth Doctor did treat Ricky Mickey poorly, but you have to remember where the Doctor was emotionally at this point.

Oh, I agree with you 100%! Nine was clearly dealing with some heavy stuff. I never held his unpleasant moments against him; they just made me uncomfortable and made me feel bad for Mickey. While we're on this subject, though, the complexity of Nine is a real testament to RTD's commitment to crafting good characters and character arcs (whatever other flaws his era had, he always took his characters very seriously and gave them great depth), and was truly brought to life via Eccleston's wonderfully nuanced portrayal.

i always looked at the mickey thing like this. from the first episode on, he was sort of a worthless jerk boyfriend rose had. by the doctor treating him(in my opinion) the way he actually deserved to be treated, he grew up. he became smarter, more mature, and a hero. is there anyone who thinks that maybe mickey wouldn't have become the great man that he is if it wasn't for the doctor treating him so badly when they first met?

How was he worthless? How was he a jerk? He was very normal, very average, and he didn't treat Rose poorly.

Did he change and grow into a better man because of the Doctor? Yes, he did. But a lot of that is the things he went through because of the Doctor or while the Doctor was present, not just how he was treated by him.

I'd argue that Ten's treatment of him really spurred his growth, not to mention his stint in Pete's World.

========================================
...^o^CORVUS^o^
Doctor Who: The Winds of Time

bret_owen99 wrote:

i always looked at the mickey thing like this. from the first episode on, he was sort of a worthless jerk boyfriend rose had. by the doctor treating him(in my opinion) the way he actually deserved to be treated, he grew up. he became smarter, more mature, and a hero. is there anyone who thinks that maybe mickey wouldn't have become the great man that he is if it wasn't for the doctor treating him so badly when they first met?

I agree that the Doc made Mickey a stronger person, but I can't say I agree that he was a worthless jerk.

I think Mickey was just a boring, simple guy, who loved Rose more than anything. No way was he a jerk! Maybe worthless in the way he would never rise to be Prime Minister. But, absolutely, the Doctor made him a much stronger, smarter and reliable man. Now, he could do anything!

well, to each their own. however, and i point out in my defence, that i think that rtd did put i little hints about mickey even in the very first episode.

mickey to rose "don't read my e-mail" was mickey cheating on rose? talking to another woman? why wouldn't a man allow his girlfriend to look at his email?

after the shop had blown up, mickey wanted to drag rose to a football game at the local pub, instead of comforting her(jeez, you're girlfriend almost just blew up. she might need some comforting). then he just went by himself when she wouldn't come.

it seemed to me(and maybe rtd) that rose did more for mickey at that point in their relationship, and that's why she left him for the doctor. she even said so at the end of rose.

rose to mickey "thanks"

mickey to rose "for what?"

rose to mickey "exactly"

bret_owen99 wrote:

well, to each their own. however, and i point out in my defence, that i think that rtd did put i little hints about mickey even in the very first episode.

mickey to rose "don't read my e-mail" was mickey cheating on rose? talking to another woman? why wouldn't a man allow his girlfriend to look at his email?

after the shop had blown up, mickey wanted to drag rose to a football game at the local pub, instead of comforting her(jeez, you're girlfriend almost just blew up. she might need some comforting). then he just went by himself when she wouldn't come.

it seemed to me(and maybe rtd) that rose did more for mickey at that point in their relationship, and that's why she left him for the doctor. she even said so at the end of rose.

rose to mickey "thanks"

mickey to rose "for what?"

rose to mickey "exactly"

I don't think Mickey was necessarily a jerk either...he loved Rose and she treated him badly. However, both Rose and Mickey were very immature when they first met the Doctor, so some of the way they treated each other IMO, has a lot to do with that fact. The Doctor had a positive influence on both of them, even if Mickey had to deal with more crap, he turned out to be a really great guy, who knew himself better and knew that he needed to be his own man because Rose was never going to be what he needed. He made his own peace and his own life, and the Doctor was an important part of that. Rose did some growing up too, especially after she was left, really, where she belonged, in the other universe with her family. When she came back, she was ready to do what she had to do, and I would like to think, mature enough to deal with her situation, that you can't always get what you want, but you can absolutely make a wonderful life out of what you have. But no...to get back to Mickey, he was not inherently a jerk, though he may have had some jerky moments.

bret_owen99 wrote:

mickey to rose "don't read my e-mail" was mickey cheating on rose? talking to another woman? why wouldn't a man allow his girlfriend to look at his email?

That's a stretch. I've been married for 16 years, and my wife and I respect the privacy of one another's emails, text messages, and so on. Unless the people in a couple specifically state "Sure, you can read my emails anytime you like", it is NOT okay.

People who are part of a couple are still individuals and have their own lives, even when they are married: they usually work in separate places, often have their own circles of friends, and so on. Reading one someone else's emails is akin to reading someone's diary: its a violation of trust and privacy. And, depending on their job, it could be a violation of an employee's contract, a potential security risk, or a breach of confidentiality.

Telling your SO not to read your emails can indicate several things. It could mean...

1) That Rose has indeed read his emails before and thus violated his privacy.

2) By reading his emails she may, inadvertently, ruin a surprise of some sort that he's had planned.

3) Mickey would have to be a bigger idiot than he initially seems to so blatantly give away possible infidelity by telling Rose not to read his emails, since telling her that could have the reverse effect.

4) Last, but not least, there are no indicators of infidelity on Mickey's part. Such a claim is not supported by the fiction we have seen onscreen at any point. As such, no infidelity exists, unless we revisit the situation at some point and such a thing is revealed.

Oh, and as for the whole post-explosion football deal, yeah, that was pretty dumb. But Rose told Mickey she was fine, and guys can be very clueless about things like that. If she'd wanted him to stay she should have asked him to stay. That incident is hardly a justification for leaving him in the lurch the way she did.

Let's not forget that in this particular relationship, it is Rose who left, and did so with another man. She treated Mickey very badly, and it took him a long time to find his own way and build his own life. When we're talking about Rose/Mickey, he's not the one wearing the "jerk" pants.

========================================
...^o^CORVUS^o^
Doctor Who: The Winds of Time

Didn't Mickey at one point say that he was seeing someone else?


I'm not taking sides, just trying to see if I remembered something correctly.
~

Yes, after Rose had already left him. He talked about it in "Boom Town"

========================================
...^o^CORVUS^o^
Doctor Who: The Winds of Time

^o^CORVUS^o^ wrote:

Yes, after Rose had already left him.

Okay, I remember that part, mostly because of the unhappy look that Rose gave him, which to me was uncalled for, since she made him "number two" to the Doctor, which i always thought was unfair to poor Mickey. I mean, he got blamed for her disappearance and had to deal with the law and whatnot, and she didn't even try to make up for that or anything. :/

~

Indeed. The convo went this way...

Mickey: I'm going out with Trisha Delaney.
Rose: *surprised* Oh. Right. That's nice. Trisha from the shop?
Mickey: Yeah, Rob Delaney's sister.
Rose: She's nice. She's a bit thick—
Mickey: She lost weight... You've been away!
Rose: Well, good for you, she's nice.

And a little later:

Mickey: So what d'you wanna do now?
Rose: Don't know.
Mickey: We could ask about hotels.
Rose: What would Trisha Delaney say?
Mickey: S'pose. There's a bar down there with a Spanish name or something-
Rose: You don't even LIKE Trisha Delaney!
Mickey: Oh is that right, what the heck do you know?
Rose: I know you, and I know her, and I know that's never gonna happen, so who d'you think you're kidding—?
Mickey: At least I know where she is!
Rose: ...There we are then. It's got nothing to do with Trisha, this is all about me—!
Mickey: YOU LEFT ME! We were nice! We were happy. And then what, you give me a kiss and you run off wiff him, and you make me feel like nuffin, Rose, I was nuffin! I can't even go out with a stupid girl from the shop because you pick up the phone and I comes runnin! I mean, is that what I am, Rose, standby? [she shakes her head] Am I just supposed to sit here for the rest of my life waiting for you because I will!
Rose: I'm sorry...

Fortunately, Mickey eventually found someone that appreciated him in Martha, who thus found someone who appreciated HER.

========================================
...^o^CORVUS^o^
Doctor Who: The Winds of Time