S5E4: The Time of Angels (Spoilers)

rdks wrote:

denali76c wrote:

i love how song has pictures of all the doctor's faces, so she'll always recognize him whenever he pops up.

But she doesn't know what order they go in, so she needs the Spotter's Guide!

I just watched the episode for a second and third time. Awesome Awesome Awesome. I tried to find something I hated about it or thought was stupid but I came up empty.

I found myself liking Amy this week. I've hated her so far, ranking at the bottom with Dodo, Donna, & Peri as my least fav companions. Although she had me scratching my head at times - she seems to know the Doctor too well, too soon.

It feels soooo good to be excited about Who again!

Well we don't know how much time has passed between victory and tToA.Could have been ages!I think "apollo 23" might be set inbetween these two.

Great episode... I've been liking the new series overall, except for some parts of Victory of the Daleks. But this one is the best so far! I guess we'll learn more about that crack next time, which is good. Better to find out a little more about it as we go along, than to only see it appear at the end of every episode and wonder what it is until the finale (or whenever it gets resolved).

The exchange between River and the bishop makes me wonder if River is really a con artist, never married the Doctor, just happens to know a lot about him and uses that for her own gain. Well, she knows a lot about the TARDIS' workings so she must have at least traveled with the Doctor in his future and learned more. I find her to be an interesting character... and I suppose she never met the 10th Doctor until the library episodes, so his face isn't in that book!

Also loved the scene in the beginning when she opened the airlock and allowed herself to be sucked out into space. That was great! And the Doctor's comments about the TARDIS landing sounds... lol!

And I could swear I heard the old (80s maybe?) console humming sound at the beginning when they're about to rescue River...

After having some time to digest this episode now, I'm finding myself curious about River's background. Such as how she knows so much about the Doctor and how she got the journal, but at the same time, I like the mystique about her too.

The fact that she has some way of keeping the Doctor in check, and bosses him around and such.

The episode as a whole was great, and despite how much the angels freak me out, I would love to see a couple more toys of the angels in the various poses and even a couple in the stage of regenerating.

Somebody said that River could possibly be the Rani. This was just them speculating, of course. But I don't think its likely anyway. Would be interesting if it was true. Probably ruin the story though.

Rogue wrote:

And the Doctor's comments about the TARDIS landing sounds... lol!

That was great! I laughed so hard at that... the way Matt delivered it was perfect.

rdks wrote:

Rogue wrote:

And the Doctor's comments about the TARDIS landing sounds... lol!

That was great! I laughed so hard at that... the way Matt delivered it was perfect.

Haha, me too! My Mum was just sat there HORRIFIED!

scarywood wrote:

Best episode so far. I had gone to the fair yesterday and was about to be late for Doctor Who. To be honest. I didn't really care anymore. The last 3 episodes had let me down...

Wait, are there multiple people posting under your account? Every week you rave about how great the episodes are! Like last week, you wrote...

scarywood wrote:

Just finished watching! Fantastic episode! ... Can't wait for the next episode! Its looking good!

Anyway, I concur with how great this particular episode is (hated last week's, even with the pretty new Daleks). One thing about it bothered me, though -- the talking with dead people thing. While it did provide for a nice "uh-oh..." moment when Sacred Bob revealed that he hadn't escaped from the angel, it also felt very similar to the scenes in the Library with the lingering consciousnesses in the suits and the Vashta Nerada using them to communicate.

In some ways the whole episode felt like a remake of the last River Song appearance, but the angels, Amy, and the added intrigue concerning River's relationship with the Doctor helped to make it seem a bit fresher.

Wes Crayon wrote:

scarywood wrote:

Best episode so far. I had gone to the fair yesterday and was about to be late for Doctor Who. To be honest. I didn't really care anymore. The last 3 episodes had let me down...

Wait, are there multiple people posting under your account? Every week you rave about how great the episodes are! Like last week, you wrote...

scarywood wrote:

Just finished watching! Fantastic episode! ... Can't wait for the next episode! Its looking good!

Anyway, I concur with how great this particular episode is (hated last week's, even with the pretty new Daleks). One thing about it bothered me, though -- the talking with dead people thing. While it did provide for a nice "uh-oh..." moment when Sacred Bob revealed that he hadn't escaped from the angel, it also felt very similar to the scenes in the Library with the lingering consciousnesses in the suits and the Vashta Nerada using them to communicate.

In some ways the whole episode felt like a remake of the last River Song appearance, but the angels, Amy, and the added intrigue concerning River's relationship with the Doctor helped to make it seem a bit fresher.

I considered this is how my posts would come across. But straight after I've seen it for the first time I'm buzzing and jump on here and express my feelings! Then I watch the episode again, once I've calmed down, and I notice the faults. In all honesty though, I only notice the faults after I've read about them on the forums.

But yesterday, I was expecting faults. The series so far had been a little...disappointing in parts. But I was genuinely pleased and even more so after my second viewing of the episode. I think I just get a little carried away at first. As for the past 4 years, I've sat down expecting awesomeness and always have that excitement in me anyway. I had that excitement with the first 3 episodes of series 5 and saw the best bits of it. Then I come on the forums, shout about how awesome it was then see that people noticed faults. Then in my second viewing, I notice them. So then I'm disappointed. Maybe I shouldn't look out for the faults? Just a habit I suppose.

What an awesome episode! And I don't dislike River Song anymore, so that's saying something! I love Amy even more than I did before, which was quite a lot, and I'm really excited for part 2!

i wonder what happens to riversong that makes her annoying??? becase in this episode i loved her and the other ones she was in she was realy realy REALY annoying

The poll needs to be split for each episode.

ok, i'm going to add to the discussion. i was torn on if i was going to write my own review of this episode, but since i didn't really hate it, i won't this time.

this episode for me was right in the middle. i didn't hate it, but i didn't love it either. some parts were good, but unfortunately, i think there were enough bad parts to drag it down.

the opening was good, with the doctor in the museum getting river's message(why didn't she just use the psychic paper like she did before?? maybe she doesn't know about that yet, or maybe only 9 and 10 used it). then we go to matt smith doing an immitation of the tardis sounds(i couldn't stand, moffatt thinks he's so clever). she knows how to fly the tardis(i don't like), but she does say someone else taught her(is she telling the truth on this one?).

the huge crash site was good(haven't seen something like that in the new series). but the photo/angel was bad. sorry, i would have been much happier had the angel come out of the tv screen ala the ring(but then we wouldn't get amy/angel, once again using the eye to capture a picture, moffatt think's he's as clever as j.k. rowling, which isn't really).

then we get doc 11 footballing a gravity globe(really, i know he's young, but does he have to kick something every episode like the dalek?). i don't like the blank angels(they remind me too much of the pyroville priestess, maybe they come from twin planets like the vulcans and romulans, sorry, scifi geek). i don't like that the angels killed people in this episode instead of sending them back in time(i thought moffat didn't like to kill people in his episodes, yet here he is snapping necks left and right). don't get me started on using the consiousness/vocal chords to lure people(reminds me of how the cybermen lured people in the army of ghosts). wait, the angel can come out of any photo, but it couldn't just mimic a voice from someone it heard?

again we get the doctor once diffusing a bomb, this time angel/amy, by reminding her she's human(for me, i liked when it was done in the dalek episode, here, i think she should have just turned without him being able to do anything about it).

at the very end comes the long grandious speech about how the no one messes with the doctor(i had enough at the end of the 11th hour).

a good episode, but could have been better. i call it blink lite(i liked blink one much better). river song almost seems to be a different person in this one(i liked her better in silence/forest). now comes the big question: who is river song? the little conversation with the bishop gave something away, which makes moffat thinks he's very clever. is she not the doctor's wife, but really a con artist who found the doctor's wife diary, and only uses it against him in previous incarnations, since he doesn't know who his wife is yet? is she really the doctor, the final incarnation(which would mean he really died in forest of the dead)? does she kill the doctor in the future, and travel back in time using a diary he started writing in the future to meet his past selves so she can feel better about herself for killing him in the future(i know, that one was long)?

i just don't think that moffatt has re-captured the magic that he used to have in one-shot episodes in the past. i loved the empty child. i loved blink. i loved the girl in the fireplace. i even loved silence in the library. i'm just not loving any of his new stuff. it all seems like he's either regurgitating(correct my spelling if it's wrong) old ideas, or his new ideas just aren't that great.

i'm going to say that this episode was better than the 11th hour, and the beast below, but if you've read my reviews, then you know that doesn't take much.

beep wrote:

Well we don't know how much time has passed between victory and tToA.Could have been ages!I think "apollo 23" might be set inbetween these two.

Actually, we kind of do know. Amy says (when they land on the planet where the ship crashed) the Doctor's shown her spaceship UK in the future and Churchill's bunker, now she wants to she an alien planet. I guess she doesn't count the asteroid they were on prior to that

A minor quibble, really, and doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the episode at all.

LOVED THIS EPISODE!

After being very down on the last one, I was so happy to see the quality shot right up again. Whew. Every season usually has a clunker. Let's hope series 5 got it's out of the way.

River was great. She's just a ton of fun. I have to believe Alex Kingston has a blast playing her. I hope because I want her to come back! I'm intrigued about her past.

The twist about the Angels at the end of this episode... awesome.

Did anyone else get a Classic Who vibe from this one? Really enjoying this series so far.

I edited Jon's original post to focus just on this episode, rather than the both this and the next one. This should help accidental spoilers later on down the line.

CJSchmidt wrote:

I edited Jon's original post to focus just on this episode, rather than the both this and the next one. This should help accidental spoilers later on down the line.

Ah, good idea. So when Scary wakes up tomorrow, he can start thread 5 for Flesh and Stone!

Have to let him do it, it is a tradition now!

Great episode! I seem to be one of the few that has actually loved every second of series 5, but this story is shaping up to be the highlight (until the finale that is)

Now, my theory on the angels "new" abilities. The Doctor does mention that the ones he encountered before were scavengers. By that, I'm fairly sure that they were "blinking" people back into the past just to stay alive (feeding off the potential energy of the victims). The angel in this story is probably not so hungry, feeding on the fallout from the crashed ship. As such, it seems logical that it isn't limited to "blinking" everyone it wants to be rid of, thus the physical killings.

Looking forward to seeing what it is the angels are actually after

Ronpur wrote:

CJSchmidt wrote:

I edited Jon's original post to focus just on this episode, rather than the both this and the next one. This should help accidental spoilers later on down the line.

Ah, good idea. So when Scary wakes up tomorrow, he can start thread 5 for Flesh and Stone!

Have to let him do it, it is a tradition now!

Haha, thanks! It feels good to have something to be almost 'in charge' of I'll get right onto it now!

And yes, good idea CJS. I never thought about spoilers for part 2.

exilea wrote:

Now, my theory on the angels "new" abilities. The Doctor does mention that the ones he encountered before were scavengers. By that, I'm fairly sure that they were "blinking" people back into the past just to stay alive (feeding off the potential energy of the victims). The angel in this story is probably not so hungry, feeding on the fallout from the crashed ship. As such, it seems logical that it isn't limited to "blinking" everyone it wants to be rid of, thus the physical killings.

I like this theory. And I LOVE the fact the Angels are physically killing people. My biggest gripe with Moffat are his monsters. Slow, plodding, or not moving at all, and they don't kill anybody. Clockwork Men, Gasmask Zombies, Angels from Blink, Vashta Nerada, Patient Zero, and The Smilers. All look absolutely terrifying but they just walk slowly towards you then - nothing. No killing, no chasing, thus, why be scared? All they're going to do to you is say "You will come with us" or something similar. But now we have Angels that snap your neck and rip out your vocal cords & whatever else they did. Awesome.

I've enjoyed the season thus far (sure, it's had its flaws, but DW has always had its flaws, and as long as it's fun I don't really care), but this is the best of the bunch thus far. The first three episodes contained elements that marked them as transitional episodes, shifting gears between the RTD style and the Moffat style; in this one, the change is complete. We've entered a new era, and the vibe is pure Moffat.

Matt Smith is amazing; the Doctor's discomfort at not knowing who/what River is to him is one of the most complex emotional responses we've ever seen from the character, and Smith owns it.

Bret, I just want to point out that your complaints have evolved, being for the most part based on your personal tastes and not elements such as structure, thematic content, and the like....which, if you think aboout it, would technically suggest an improvement in episode quality, right?

Quote :

No killing, no chasing, thus, why be scared? All they're going to do to you is say "You will come with us" or something similar. But now we have Angels that snap your neck and rip out your vocal cords & whatever else they did. Awesome.

There was an interview with Moffat a few weeks ago where they brought up the fact that no one had died yet in his episodes. He said he hadn't done it on purpose, but that he didn't think he'd be able to keep it up for long and smiled.

rdks wrote:

Slow, plodding, or not moving at all, and they don't kill anybody. Clockwork Men, Gasmask Zombies, Angels from Blink, Vashta Nerada, Patient Zero, and The Smilers. All look absolutely terrifying but they just walk slowly towards you then - nothing. No killing, no chasing, thus, why be scared? All they're going to do to you is say "You will come with us" or something similar.

In fairness, only the Smilers operated that way (and even their unhappiness seemed to signify that people would be eaten by a subterranean behemoth, provided they weren't frightened children or friends of the queen). The Clockwork Men were harvesting people for body parts to run the ship; the gasmask zombies transformed people into stalking abominations perpetually crying for their mommies; the Vashta Nerada ATE HUMAN FLESH TO THE BONE (they killed somewhere around four people, didn't they?); and Patient Zero didn't properly kill people, but it rendered them indefinitely comatose -- not an ideal way to live (unless your dreams are awesome).

And the Weeping Angels! No, they didn't kill people, but they displaced them in time... which would be a pretty terrifying prospect if you're happy with where you are (though some might see it as potential for adventure). I thought this was one of the things that made Blink pretty brilliant, as that kind of displacement allows for a neat layered story with time loops and all kinds of awesomeness -- and admittedly, I find the killings to be a bit weak in comparison. Even with the Angels reanimating a portion of their victims' consciousnesses for communication/luring purposes, snapping necks pales in comparison to the MOs of almost all of the Moffat monsters noted above. Not that that makes this episode any less good, and I'm sure we'll find out what the Angels mean to do with the bodies next week (I'm thinking more Angels, since the people looked into their eyes before they died), but still.

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that I didn't mean to pick on you, scarywood! I think it's better to recognize an episode's flaws than not. If those flaws diminish one's enjoyment of the episode... well, that makes truly excellent episodes like this one so much more satisfying!

Yes, the dialogue in the episodes stated the creatures did those things. But we never SAW it. Even the Vashta Nerada, what it's marketed and recognized as is a skeleton in a spacesuit. And all it did was very slowly lumber towards you. It's the same with all of them. Your told they do bad things, but they never showed it for any of them. I never saw Clockworks chop people up, or Zombies transform people, or Patient Zero do anything to anybody. Just about every other monster gets a kill to introduce it. You see exactly what it does.

I'm not really complaining about it, No, wait, I'm complaining about the Smilers. I thought, ok, they look scary, let's see what they do! NOTHING. I watched all the press leading up to the show, constantly hearing Moffat and Smith saying "Ohh, wait til you see the Smilers! They're so scary!". And... they frown at you.

But it's all water under the bridge now, we have murdering Angels, so I'm happy