S7E13: Nightmare in Silver (SPOILERS)

For me, the Cybermen really were pretty scary here, but since they wound up being controlled by the Doctor's cyber personality, they really got stunted. (I wound up calling that personality of the Doctor's "CyberMatt.")

Rust wrote:

stetsons_are_cool7 wrote:

I too cringed at the last lines of the Doctor's.

Why?

Smith said them in the Cyberplanner voice - it seemed pretty obvious it was nothing more then lingering after effects of half his brain being converted. He even slapped himself for added emphasis.

It just shouldn't have been there at all. Once again - I know people are tired of hearing this, and frankly I'm tired of saying it, but - this is a family show.

Scary wrote:

Rust wrote:

stetsons_are_cool7 wrote:

I too cringed at the last lines of the Doctor's.

Why?

Smith said them in the Cyberplanner voice - it seemed pretty obvious it was nothing more then lingering after effects of half his brain being converted. He even slapped himself for added emphasis.

It just shouldn't have been there at all. Once again - I know people are tired of hearing this, and frankly I'm tired of saying it, but - this is a family show.

And kids won't get the reference. I get the argument, but it doesn't hold water in relation to the show. Yeah, it was never overtly stated before the show came back on, but Companions weren't exactly picked at random back in the day either.

Zoe wore that catsuit well, to say nothing of the scene where she straddles the console. Leela could be positively distracting at times. And then of course you have Perri who was hired for her tremendous talents...both of them.

Maybe it's a benefit of me being fairly new to the franchise, but going back through the classics there's plenty of sexualization...just never with the Doctor before. Which is understandable (He's alien), but back then he wasn't the last of his species. I'm willing to allow the Doctor a little mortality in this instance. Just because your over a thousand years old doesn't mean you can't look.

Rust wrote:

Scary wrote:

Rust wrote:

stetsons_are_cool7 wrote:

I too cringed at the last lines of the Doctor's.

Why?

Smith said them in the Cyberplanner voice - it seemed pretty obvious it was nothing more then lingering after effects of half his brain being converted. He even slapped himself for added emphasis.

It just shouldn't have been there at all. Once again - I know people are tired of hearing this, and frankly I'm tired of saying it, but - this is a family show.

And kids won't get the reference. I get the argument, but it doesn't hold water in relation to the show. Yeah, it was never overtly stated before the show came back on, but Companions weren't exactly picked at random back in the day either.

Zoe wore that catsuit well, to say nothing of the scene where she straddles the console. Leela could be positively distracting at times. And then of course you have Perri who was hired for her tremendous talents...both of them.

Maybe it's a benefit of me being fairly new to the franchise, but going back through the classics there's plenty of sexualization...just never with the Doctor before. Which is understandable (He's alien), but back then he wasn't the last of his species. I'm willing to allow the Doctor a little mortality in this instance. Just because your over a thousand years old doesn't mean you can't look.

I think you underestimate children. They're not dumb. I remember very clearly hearing playground discussions about sexual things from around the age of 9 years old. Sure, we didn't understand most of it, but we knew it was there and knew that it was 'rude'. The whole "Ah, they won't understand it all!" argument is pretty invalid since, although some may not understand the references like you say, others will and others have - to that I can personally testify from experience.

I don't deny that the Classic series had some sexualisation; it clearly did. However, I would say it's far heavier now. The catsuits: I have nothing against them. It's the Doctor's reaction to them, like eyeing Jenny up from behind in the catsuit (in 'The Crimson Horror'), that I find unsettling and disturbing.

As for Leela, I haven't seen any of her episodes so I wouldn't be able to make a fair comment on her.

Have to admit I turned off the show around a third way through. This set of episodes are just not cutting it at all. Once again, Big Finish have far better audio stories than the TV version. I hope things improve in series 8 and the anniversary episode is at least good.

I'm going to have to watch this a 3rd time me thinks.... something new and exciting every time!!

Watching it for the second time myself.

"TIME LORDS! There's information about the Time Lords in here!"

"...Your erasing yourself from history? Aaaah. I see. You know someone could reconstruct what you're hiding from the hole you leave behind?"

Matt's Cyber Planner is easily the best Cyber-Villain we've gotten, pushing out even the Cyber-Controller from Tomb of the Cybermen. It's just so nice to get a Cyber-Villain who is menacing and threatening without also trying to be a unfeeling machine. Also makes a dang good point about the Doctor post-"Death".

I liked it a lot.

The Cybermen are great. What makes them scary is they're more than the Cybus Cybermen that literally just seemed like robots. They were smart here, they had more human. That makes them frightening. They looked and sounded fantastic. I wonder if they could beat the daleks now ?9(:

Clara. I am loving her more each episode. Shes cute, funny, clever. God then the emperor made the handy joke about the glove, and she did that cute little giggle i almost died of cuteness.

Good episode overall, can't wait till next week.

Well, Cybermen. The new ones are efficient killing machines. I wouldn't call them scary as in make me afraid of the dark scary. But they are an improvement over the Cybusmen. It would have been nice to have seen a bit of dead flesh to remind us of what horror those nice silver Iron Man suits conceal. I do think these Cybermen are more of a threat, and if they had gotten off planet, it would have been a major galactic war.

Nice to see a "Cyber Planner" back!

The Cybusman chess player reminded me of "The Silver Turk" audio! LOL

I like the hive mind concept. And every time someone mentions Spare Parts, I smile!

The sounds of the bomb reminded me of the Cyber Bomb from Earthshock.

Hated the kids. Was their only reason for being there was for the girl to realize Porridge
was the Emperor? And what was the point of the marriage proposal?

I liked the setting, and the amusement park makes a great source for Cybermen. I kind of wish the story had been set when it was open and guests were disappearing. That could have been horrifying.

And where did "Cyberia" come from? Is that what they are calling their race now after this last upgrade?

Presumably. Revenge of the Cybermen was the farthest out we'd seen their race, right? All but extinct, with Mondas and Telos lost to them? Might be what the Survivors of the Cyber Wars cobbled together to keep their race coherent after the destruction of an entire galaxy.

EDIT: Mondas, not Mundas. The Cybermen aren't in league with Sheogorath.

Yes the cyber-chess-player reminded me of the big finish audio "the silver Turk" where the 8th doctor encounters a dead Mondas Cyberman who was in a sideshow playing chess with anyone who would pay to challenge him, well he was not very dead lol.

Did anyone notice the Cybermen have silver moving mouths again? My son said they were creepy and my wife said they reminded her of Robo Cop haha.

I gave it an Okay... and like some above felt horrible about voting so low for a Gaiman episode.

I did love the new/old Cybermen, by-and-large. Thought the kids were a pointless addition... but felt like NG may have had a purpose that got nixed partway through.

I didn't hate it, but didn't love it.

Apparently it was "Cyberiad" and not "Cyberia". So it refers to Cybermen collective conscience controlled by the Cyberplanner. Reminds me even more of Spare Parts now with the Central Committee.

Ronpur wrote:

Apparently it was "Cyberiad" and not "Cyberia". So it refers to Cybermen collective conscience controlled by the Cyberplanner. Reminds me even more of Spare Parts now with the Central Committee.

It did have a feel of Spare Parts and The Silver Turk lol

Oh! I did like the Cybermites. And one surviving at the end ensures we'll get more Cybermen in the future (as if that was in doubt).

Scary wrote:

It just shouldn't have been there at all. Once again - I know people are tired of hearing this, and frankly I'm tired of saying it, but - this is a family show.

Let's not forget that there are more than just children in a family.

Just Scott wrote:

Scary wrote:

It just shouldn't have been there at all. Once again - I know people are tired of hearing this, and frankly I'm tired of saying it, but - this is a family show.

Let's not forget that there are more than just children in a family.

My family is a 35 year old, 28 year old and a 6 year old

Just Scott wrote:

Scary wrote:

It just shouldn't have been there at all. Once again - I know people are tired of hearing this, and frankly I'm tired of saying it, but - this is a family show.

Let's not forget that there are more than just children in a family.

And the fact that children are in a family means such content shouldn't be there...

I respect your views Scary, but I just can't agree. If the Doctor were getting hot and steamy that may be one thing, but Jenny's outfit is hardly scandalous and the Doctor's remarks about Clara are - as I've said before - just lingering influence of the Cyber Planner given how that sequence plays out.

A few harmless remarks and gestures are not going to send the show spiraling into Sodom levels of depravity especially when Doctor Who has never been shy about sexuality in the first place. Heck, Remembrance of the Daleks pretty heavily suggests Ace - a teenager, mind you - slept with the guy who turned out to be working for the Daleks.

Scary wrote:

And the fact that children are in a family means such content shouldn't be there...

I honestly mean no offence & I apologise if I do cause any.......but.......I think you may be looking way too hard into this? It's not as if it's after the watershed material!



IMO, There has been absolutely nothing offensive about the latest episodes (apart from the awful storylines!! )

Everyone has their own sets of values and different thresholds of tolerance. It was the same back in the 70's and 80's versions of Doctor Who between the producers at the time and the viewership about the violent content.

To each their own.

Bottom line is, this is the way the producers choose to make this show now. As it was then, it is now - one can choose to tune in, or choose to turn off. They will continue to make the show they think will appeal to the greater masses.

I'm not saying either side of this discussion is right or wrong, and I too respect others to have their opinions and values, but I suppose it comes down to whether your enjoyment of the program is hinged on how these characters are presented.

If the current characterizations offend to the point of discomfort and enjoyment of Doctor Who, then I suggest not watching.

For my part, I'm not a supporter of a more emotionally attached Doctor, but not to the point where I no longer want to watch.



A discussion as broad as this should be continued in its own thread, so that members can continue to discuss the episode itself.

I gave a it a "good" thanks to the upgraded Cybermen and the Doctor's "war with himself." Minus these elements (had it been some new enemy, for example) the story would've rated an "okay" or lower.

The Doctor really should have sent Clara back to the TARDIS with the kids. Of course, they wouldn't have stayed there (who besides Nyssa ever did?) but the Doctor should have been shown to be taking responsibility for getting the kids out of a potentially dangerous situation. This is the sort of character stuff that bothers me more than the Doctor noticing Clara wears tight skirts (sorry, Scary )

And "Porridge"...the performance was great, but the character...seriously, he could have blown up the planet AND saved everybody at any time but didn't want to do it because he hated being Emperor? Really? Why would his Empire want this cat back?

Still, the episode was enjoyable. Really, every episode since the last one Moffat wrote has been enjoyable. Who's writing the finale again?

I liked it.

I hated this episode. HATED. I don't know that I agree with Cruel Angel that it was the worst of the series so far, but I definitely hated it the most.

Biggest problem for me -- bigger than the awful children, the weaksauce Cybermen (that first one broke out Flash speed to punch out a fat guy, then the army never used that technique again? I'd spam the heck out of that special move!), and the designs clearly cribbed from the Borg and the suitcase armor from Iron Man 2 -- the crap exchanges between the Doctor and "Mr. Clever." Gaiman actually had the audacity to write Clever scolding the Doctor for his emotions.

EXCEPT MR. CLEVER DID NOTHING BUT EMOTE IN EVERY BLASTED LINE HE SPOKE.

So effing stupid, and since so much of the episode focused on that (and since it would have been the best part of the episode if it hadn't been destroyed for me because Cyberminds should not be snarling and passionate and excitable) I just found myself getting angrier and angrier as the episode went on.

Does Doctor Who have script editors? Does anyone review anything before episodes go into production?? Dear lord, how does this crap happen???

Wes Crayon wrote:

I hated this episode. HATED. I don't know that I agree with Cruel Angel that it was the worst of the series so far, but I definitely hated it the most.

Biggest problem for me -- bigger than the awful children, the weaksauce Cybermen (that first one broke out Flash speed to punch out a fat guy, then the army never used that technique again? I'd spam the heck out of that special move!), and the designs clearly cribbed from the Borg and the suitcase armor from Iron Man 2 -- the crap exchanges between the Doctor and "Mr. Clever." Gaiman actually had the audacity to write Clever scolding the Doctor for his emotions.

EXCEPT MR. CLEVER DID NOTHING BUT EMOTE IN EVERY BLASTED LINE HE SPOKE.

So effing stupid, and since so much of the episode focused on that (and since it would have been the best part of the episode if it hadn't been destroyed for me because Cyberminds should not be snarling and passionate and excitable) I just found myself getting angrier and angrier as the episode went on.

Does Doctor Who have script editors? Does anyone review anything before episodes go into production?? Dear lord, how does this crap happen???

And while one fan is in distress others are loving it.....

I guess this series is going to keep us fans arguing for years to come.

I think its the best series since the series return