S7E16: The Time of the Doctor [2013 Christmas Ep] (SPOILERS)

jonwes wrote:

Ronpur wrote:

Her being River never occurred to me either.  And that is after a couple repeats.  

What was in the box Tasha gave him?  I want to think Jelly Babies!

They were marshmallows! That's his source for getting the marshmallows that he and Clara roasted earlier. He mentioned then that the pink ones were best.

As for Tasha Lem is River theory, I guess Lem is "Mel" spelled backward! LOL.

OOOH! Why didn't I think of that! I was racking my brain trying to figure out if there was a clue in the name!

Was there an explanation given as to why the Doctor never used his Tardis to evacuate (or at least shelter) the townspeople, like he did for Clara?

Not sure about the sheltering bit, but he couldn't just evacuate the planet. He was trying to prevent them from destroying the planet and trapping the Time Lords, too.

So he just happens to have the seal given to the master by the timelords in the 5 doctors???, yes i know his pockets are bigger on the inside but he is carrying a seal taken by the 3rd dr in the episode?  So his pocket lint is transferable from regeneration to regeneration.  His dry cleaner must hate him lol.

Coming soon the BBC America: timelord hoarders


Name of roses area was the Powell Estate i think

Calixar wrote:

Ronpur wrote:

What was in the box Tasha gave him?  I want to think Jelly Babies!

That's what I was thinking... especially when he asked about the colors.

Guys, it was marshmallows.

rmlextreme wrote:

So he just happens to have the seal given to the master by the timelords in the 5 doctors???, yes i know his pockets are bigger on the inside but he is carrying a seal taken by the 3rd dr in the episode?  So his pocket lint is transferable from regeneration to regeneration.  His dry cleaner must hate him lol.

I can easily see him scrounging around for it after the events of Day of the Doctor and keeping it handy. It is one of the few things of absolute Gallifreyian origin he can be certain of. Given the nature of his quest, it makes sense he'd keep something as a point of reference.

These are fair points but... Who's to say the grave belongs to the 11th Doctor? And even if it does, I guess time was just rewritten; the 11th Doctor originally DID die on Trenzalore, but the Time Lords rewrote events by giving him a new life cycle.

Anyway, I'm rewatching the episode right now. I understand it a bit better now, but I'm still left with the question of why do the Time Lords need the Doctor to reveal his name in order to bring Gallifrey back? How does that work?

Oh, and by the way, the fact that the Doctor's "biggest fear" from The God Complex is the crack in time really peeves me off. I mean... Really? That's his biggest fear? I was expecting the War Doctor, the Daleks or the actual Time War or something. And anyway, didn't we hear the TARDIS cloister bell when he opened the door in The God Complex? Why then is it a crack in time that was behind the door and not something that was in the TARDIS?

Scary wrote:

These are fair points but... Who's to say the grave belongs to the 11th Doctor? And even if it does, I guess time was just rewritten; the 11th Doctor originally DID die on Trenzalore, but the Time Lords rewrote events by giving him a new life cycle.

Anyway, I'm rewatching the episode right now. I understand it a bit better now, but I'm still left with the question of why do the Time Lords need the Doctor to reveal his name in order to bring Gallifrey back? How does that work?

I thought it was so he they could know it was really him and establish the link to our universe.

timewarrior wrote:

I thought it was so he they could know it was really him and establish the link to our universe.  

Why do they need to know the Doctor is there in order to come back though?  

Scary wrote:

timewarrior wrote:

I thought it was so he they could know it was really him and establish the link to our universe.  

Why do they need to know the Doctor is there in order to come back though?  

Because they trust him?

timewarrior wrote:

Scary wrote:

timewarrior wrote:

I thought it was so he they could know it was really him and establish the link to our universe.  

Why do they need to know the Doctor is there in order to come back though?  

Because they trust him?  

To do what? What danger are they in if he's not there?

Scary wrote:

timewarrior wrote:

Scary wrote:

timewarrior wrote:

I thought it was so he they could know it was really him and establish the link to our universe.  

Why do they need to know the Doctor is there in order to come back though?  

Because they trust him?  

To do what? What danger are they in if he's not there?

They could accidently set their vcrs to the wrong time. . .I guess it's dangerous to cross into the universe and they wan to make sure its safe to do so. . .otherwise, they'd be neck deep in daleks. . .

timewarrior wrote:

Scary wrote:

timewarrior wrote:

Scary wrote:

timewarrior wrote:

I thought it was so he they could know it was really him and establish the link to our universe.  

Why do they need to know the Doctor is there in order to come back though?  

Because they trust him?  

To do what? What danger are they in if he's not there?

They could accidently set their vcrs to the wrong time. . .I guess it's dangerous to cross into the universe and they wan to make sure its safe to do so. . .otherwise, they'd be neck deep in daleks. . .

Haha!

Hmm, I guess so. But I don't think they would exactly be threatened. They put up a good enough fight in the Time War, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to face everyone again. I guess you could say they don't want to come back through yet because they're worried another war will begin, so they want to know the Doctor is there to help/protect them. But what exactly can the Doctor do now that he couldn't in the Time War? If he couldn't stop the Time War, how is he going to stop an equally massive 'Second Time War'?

Another thing: how did the Time Lords send the Doctor a new life cycle through the crack when they're supposed to be frozen in suspended animation?

It seems to me there is a power struggle on Gallifry. First they blow up the TARDIS to create a crack. Then they recycle the Doctor's regeneration abilities (aka the offer that was made to the Master in The Five Doctors.

thebreen wrote:

jonwes wrote:

But I just thought it was Moffat falling back onto a similar character. Huh.

That might be partly why I'm so eager to believe she's River... otherwise, it is just Moffat regurgitating a character concept, and that would be rather disappointing.

Right, because Moffat never does that. Don't ever watch Sherlock.

KIRKESS wrote:

It seems to me there is a power struggle on Gallifry. First they blow up the TARDIS to create a crack. Then they recycle the Doctor's regeneration abilities (aka the offer that was made to the Master in The Five Doctors.  

Tasha Lem said that it was Kovarian and the Silence Church People Thingy that blew up his TARDIS in an attempt to stop the Doctor from getting to Trenzalore to reveal his name and therefore to bring Gallifrey back. The Time Lords are merely using those cracks to get back through because they are weak points and they wish to exploit them. The question now is, as I said, why do the Time Lords need the Doctor's name in order to come back to our universe?

Scary wrote:

timewarrior wrote:

Scary wrote:

timewarrior wrote:

Scary wrote:

timewarrior wrote:

I thought it was so he they could know it was really him and establish the link to our universe.  

Why do they need to know the Doctor is there in order to come back though?  

Because they trust him?  

To do what? What danger are they in if he's not there?

They could accidently set their vcrs to the wrong time. . .I guess it's dangerous to cross into the universe and they wan to make sure its safe to do so. . .otherwise, they'd be neck deep in daleks. . .

Haha!

Hmm, I guess so. But I don't think they would exactly be threatened. They put up a good enough fight in the Time War, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to face everyone again. I guess you could say they don't want to come back through yet because they're worried another war will begin, so they want to know the Doctor is there to help/protect them. But what exactly can the Doctor do now that he couldn't in the Time War? If he couldn't stop the Time War, how is he going to stop an equally massive 'Second Time War'?

Another thing: how did the Time Lords send the Doctor a new life cycle through the crack when they're supposed to be frozen in suspended animation?

perhaps they don't want to get sucker punched as soon as they enter the universe? the doctor could have garnered their safe entrance into the universe. . .they are frozen in their own universe. . .

Scary wrote:

KIRKESS wrote:

It seems to me there is a power struggle on Gallifry. First they blow up the TARDIS to create a crack. Then they recycle the Doctor's regeneration abilities (aka the offer that was made to the Master in The Five Doctors.  

Tasha Lem said that it was Kovarian and the Silence Church People Thingy that blew up his TARDIS in an attempt to stop the Doctor from getting to Trenzalore to reveal his name and therefore to bring Gallifrey back. The Time Lords are merely using those cracks to get back through because they are weak points and they wish to exploit them. The question now is, as I said, why do the Time Lords need the Doctor's name in order to come back to our universe?

Because they don't want to get jumped as soon as they enter the universe. duh. . .if you knew you were going to get hit in the head and kicked in the groin if you went into a place. . .would you still go?

It's still possible that Trenzalore is the Doctor's final resting place some point in the offing. He's supposed to have "lead millions into battle." This did not happen in the episode.

As well, the Time Lords have no idea if 1) The Time War ended with their disappearance and 2) If the Doctor is still alive. It's also possible the Crack was able to "break" the stasis field in the same way it could erase Rory, transport the Vampires, etc.

TinDogRory wrote:

It's still possible that Trenzalore is the Doctor's final resting place some point in the offing. He's supposed to have "lead millions into battle." This did not happen in the episode.

also how does that explain the curator in the day of the doctor?

timewarrior wrote:

TinDogRory wrote:

It's still possible that Trenzalore is the Doctor's final resting place some point in the offing. He's supposed to have "lead millions into battle." This did not happen in the episode.

also how does that explain the curator in the day of the doctor?  

Future Doctor (As now there are 26 possible regenerations) before the Doctor's death at Trenzalore. I still think it's a Time Differential-ed Fourth.

TinDogRory wrote:

timewarrior wrote:

TinDogRory wrote:

It's still possible that Trenzalore is the Doctor's final resting place some point in the offing. He's supposed to have "lead millions into battle." This did not happen in the episode.

also how does that explain the curator in the day of the doctor?  

Future Doctor (As now there are 26 possible regenerations) before the Doctor's death at Trenzalore. I still think it's a Time Differential-ed Fourth.

Let's face it. . .this show could go on until the end of civilization. . .so the doctor will be running around until is 200th anniversary.

Of course. I don't think I contested that. But the dialogue does say "New Cycle" of Regenerations, so Moffat is still giving it a limit, even if it's not likely we'll get there.

timewarrior wrote:

perhaps they don't want to get sucker punched as soon as they enter the universe? the doctor could have garnered their safe entrance into the universe. . .they are frozen in their own universe. . .

Yes, but what can the Doctor do to protect them? He couldn't protect Gallifrey in the Time War, why should he be able to in this Second Time War? In fact, he was SO unable to protect Gallifrey that he felt the only way to stop everything was to blow the whole planet up!

TinDogRory wrote:

As well, the Time Lords have no idea if 1) The Time War ended with their disappearance and 2) If the Doctor is still alive.

They do know that the Doctor is still alive, otherwise they wouldn't have sent the new life-cycle through the crack, they wouldn't have sent out the emergency "Doctor Who?" distress signal, and they wouldn't have tried to get him to say his name on Trenzalore to bring Gallifrey back (somehow).

TinDogRory wrote:

Future Doctor (As now there are 26 possible regenerations) before the Doctor's death at Trenzalore. I still think it's a Time Differential-ed Fourth.

I inferred from the line "You'll find yourself revisiting a few [faces], too" to mean that the Curator is indeed a future regeneration, not the 4th Doctor but another copy of his body.

Scary wrote:

timewarrior wrote:

perhaps they don't want to get sucker punched as soon as they enter the universe?   the doctor could have garnered their safe entrance into the universe. . .they are frozen in their own universe. . .

Yes, but what can the Doctor do to protect them? He couldn't protect Gallifrey in the Time War, why should he be able to in this Second Time War? In fact, he was SO unable to protect Gallifrey that he felt the only way to stop everything was to blow the whole planet up!

TinDogRory wrote:

As well, the Time Lords have no idea if 1) The Time War ended with their disappearance and 2) If the Doctor is still alive.

They do know that the Doctor is still alive, otherwise they wouldn't have sent the new life-cycle through the crack, they wouldn't have sent out the emergency "Doctor Who?" distress signal, and they wouldn't have tried to get him to say his name on Trenzalore to bring Gallifrey back (somehow).

TinDogRory wrote:

Future Doctor (As now there are 26 possible regenerations) before the Doctor's death at Trenzalore. I still think it's a Time Differential-ed Fourth.

I inferred from the line "You'll find yourself revisiting a few [faces], too" to mean that the Curator is indeed a future regeneration, not the 4th Doctor but another copy of his body.

Because the doctor is the man! the only timelord that can get anything done. . .sheesh!