S7E16: The Time of the Doctor [2013 Christmas Ep] (SPOILERS)

There's probably not enough in Time of the Doctor as is, but I'd wager there's a draft out there that would fit.

Also... was anyone else disappointed that the end of the episode wasn't Clara brining the Doctor back to dinner with her family with his new face? It seemed like this was being set up but couldn't fit. (And they came up with a better end line!)

jonwes wrote:

I'm not sure what else would have been in a two-parter, though, realistically. I mean, if the plot had been different...

Of course, if the story had been different, there might not have been any need for a two-parter!

I'm kinda amazed that you guys are talking about it so intently, at least in a way that isn't focused on how incredibly awful it was. I really, really want to be part of this conversation -- I honestly look forward to chatting with you guys -- but I have no questions and almost nothing good to say!

A friend of mine posted his thoughts on the episode (he loves EVERY episode, so I'm kinda shocked that even he wasn't all that into this one), and I responded the way I do. Some of what I've said here; some stuff in response to what he wrote; some ideas on how the episode (particularly the resolution) could've been improved. Oh, and some discussion of the one thing I actually did like about the episode.

http://wesoteric.tumblr.com/post/71356907529

Even though I really like Matt Smith, I almost wanted Moffat to do a bold change in regeneration stories and do the regeneration either early on or halfway through and give most of the episode to Capaldi!

Calixar wrote:

Someone explain The End of Time in relation to all of this.

The End of Time and The Day of the Doctor occur simultaneously. What we see are two facets of the same chain of command. Rasillion and the High Council and The War Council (The guys actually trying to defend the planet).

Basically, while the Doctors are saving Gallifrey, Rasillion is making his bid to break free and getting a chestful of lightning for his trouble.

This also means when Gallifrey is eventually returned, the Doctor may have to face off against Rasillion once more.

Ronpur wrote:

I have been thinking about the Gallifrey being frozen after The Day of the Doctor and now unfrozen in The Time of the Doctor. The Curator implied that Gallifrey was safe and the Doctor will find it some day. Perhaps it was unfrozen after it was transported to the other universe. The 3 Doctors were not sure their plan worked, so perhaps it just did not stay frozen. The paintings were similar, in that those inside the painting could break out, so is that what happened to the Gallifrians? In all the rush to answer questions from Matt's era, we have some new questions. So, I hope we see 12(or 14) get involved in the search for Galiifrey.

The Time Lords are masters of space and time, if anyone can circumvent the idea that you're "frozen" in a instant of time, it'd be them.

Plus there is the fact that the Zygons, the three Doctors and a Dalek were able to move about when they were trapped inside paintings in "The Day of the Doctor".

It makes me think that while trapped in a "moment" you are allowed certain actions, but not much. As we saw in Day, the survivors seem to acknowledge the fact they are saved given what the Moment showcases. Plus the fact that somebody on Gallifrey shunted in a whole new batch of regenerations onto the Doctor.

It makes me wonder what Gallifrey is going to be like, when it finally is returned. Will the Doctor have to contend with Rasillion and his mad plan to end Time itself once more? Or has the Master killed Rasillion? For that matter, what is the fate of the Master? A being imperfectly resurrected and fated to die...but trapped in a place where nothing can ever change?

A friend sent this hilariously horrifying picture to me on Facebook.

Found this info online, which was discussed here as well:

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/the-time-of-the-doctor-what-time-forgot-57384.htm

The "and fail to answer" part of the prophecy was ignored. Clearly, the truth field didn't work that way. In fact, I think there's some evidence that the Doctor protected himself from the field (with the sonic perhaps? - speaking of which, it seems like he lost it/it got destroyed while Clara was away) because he no longer seemed to be under its effect when we see him after the 300 year gap. I'd think the Doctor could figure out blocking that one. Also, it's a prophecy. I'm not sure we can rely on them getting it exactly right, so this doesn't bother me. The bit about "the fall of the Eleventh" not being true... he's still the 11th Doctor. Capaldi with be the 12th Doctor. The War Doctor has a different name, and the 10th Doctor just stayed the 10th Doctor.

I hadn't expected "Time of the Doctor" to try to wrap up all the plot threads Moffat had laid down over the past four years, but when it became clear that's what he was doing, I still can't help but think "That was not worth four years of build up."

I don't understand why every time the Doctor regenerates the TARDIS has to crash. Like why wouldn't he park it somewhere before the regeneration to prevent that from happening.

so......yeah........."magic bood"

Rocco wrote:

I don't understand why every time the Doctor regenerates the TARDIS has to crash. Like why wouldn't he park it somewhere before the regeneration to prevent that from happening.

To be fair, if Matt hadn't fiddled with the controls in his final moments he wouldn't have had that issue.

But besides that, how else are we going to have our first adventure with the 12th Doctor without crashing right into the thick of another mess?

I never thought that when the Dr "died" he would be bored to death. An unsatisfying end.

Last night as a birthday present and favor to me, my non-sci-fi-watching children sat down with me and watched "The Day of the Doctor". Great present! But seeing the end again brings up a question for me. Matt's doctor looks so happy, eager, and excited about "going home the long way" at the end of that episode, and none of that comes up at all in Time of the Doctor. I don't' get it--what happened? Did I miss something?

newtowhogal wrote:

Last night as a birthday present and favor to me, my non-sci-fi-watching children sat down with me and watched "The Day of the Doctor".  Great present!  But seeing the end again brings up a question for me.  Matt's doctor looks so happy, eager, and excited about "going home the long way" at the end of that episode, and none of that comes up at all in Time of the Doctor. I don't' get it--what happened? Did I miss something?

That was more meant as something setting up the future, a new mission for the next 50 years, if you will. I don't think Gallifrey coming back will be resolved any time soon. In fact, I was surprised Gallifrey popped back up at all in "Time."

jonwes wrote:
         "That was more meant as something setting up the future, a new mission for the next 50                years, if you will. I don't think Gallifrey coming back will be resolved any time soon. In fact, I was surprised Gallifrey popped back up at all in "Time.""

Thanks, Jonwes.  That makes sense.  The only thing that disappoints me is that smile on Matt Smith's face at the end of DOTD was the happiest, beamiest (if I may make up that word), and most joyful smile I saw on Matt's very expressive face in any of his Doctor Who episodes.  I would have enjoyed sharing in his delight at beginning (at least) the search for Gallifrey.

Oh, I know what you mean. Matt says something (I think it's in the behind the scenes for Time) about kind of wishing he and Clara had another series. I fully agree! I am excited for Capaldi, but after Doctor it would have been nice to see this version of the Doctor and Clara have more adventures together, maybe even getting some clues as to where Gallifrey might be along the way.

HOPEFULLY Big Finish can get them to do audios.

I just hope Big Finish can keep their license with AudioGO going under and Random House picking up the master audio license. Hopefully Random House would be willing to team up like AudioGO eventually did, allowing Big Finish a toe into the New Series. Big Finish expanding to also get all the New Series rights? Who knows how all this upheaval will eventually shake out.

But Matt Smith certainly has a couple long gaps between here and Impossible Astronaut where more stories and even companions could be slipped in.

I do know that Stephen Moffat has praised Big Finish on occasion and is reported to have told Karen, Arthur and Matt that "Big Finish is waiting" for them.

I have to wonder if, with Random House having the license that when Big Finish's license is up in 2016, we'll see Nine and Ten handed over to them.

If "Day of the Doctor" is everything I love about Doctor Who, then "Time of of the Doctor" is everything I hate about it