Lucas is at it again

Cruel Angel wrote:

jaredofmo wrote:

Lucas needs to stop re-mining Star Wars, IMO. Do something NEW.

I think he's been tapped out since the 80s, outside of Indy Jones.

Didn't you see the 4th Indy film? The man was out of good ideas when he did that one. Lots of recycle mixed with just dumb. I saw it at the Dollar Theatre and still felt ripped off.

squishy wrote:

Cruel Angel wrote:

jaredofmo wrote:

Lucas needs to stop re-mining Star Wars, IMO. Do something NEW.

I think he's been tapped out since the 80s, outside of Indy Jones.

Didn't you see the 4th Indy film? The man was out of good ideas when he did that one. Lots of recycle mixed with just dumb. I saw it at the Dollar Theatre and still felt ripped off.

Unfortunately, I did see that one when it came out. Only thing I thought they got right was the chemistry between Indy and Marion.

That comment meant the Indy Jones movies in the 80s. Everything else he did in the 80s on up... ick.

Now, granted, I'm a huge Indiana Jones freak, but I liked Crystal Skull. Of the four films I rank it #3.

I like Star Wars as well, just not as much. The Greedo thing seems stupid to me, but I can live with it. Solo shot first, yeah. You know what, I've seen photos of Lucas wearing that shirt. He thinks it's funny.

IT'S A MOVIE. More, it's HIS MOVIE.

As a writer, I agree with mysterylad. My book that was just published in June this year... I've already thought of changes I'd make to it if I still could.

J.R.R. Tolkien rewrote portions of The Hobbit after it originally came out and before releasing The Lord of the Rings.

Oh... Howard the Duck sucks... I won't fight anyone on that.

mysterylad wrote:

Dude, if it had been your idea, wouldn't YOU wanna bury the Star Wars Xmas Special?

Actually, the funny thing is if Lucas wasn't so adamant about destroying all traces of the Christmas Special, it likely would have been long forgotten outside hardcore fans anyway. The only reason it's sought after is because Lucas is so embarrassed by it.

Quote :

I can see why this bugs you. Still, being a writer and an artist, I find myself looking back at my earlier work and wishing I could change it. I get where Lucas is coming from. The flaws in one's previous work can really chafe. When it comes to Star Wars, Lucas has said on numerous occasions that the rough spots in Star Wars (based on limitations in technology, time, and money) really grate on him. He may sincerely want to erase the embarassment they represent to him...and that's his right. It's a common desire among creative people. The problem here is that the artist's work has been embraced by the audience to such a degree that they think of it as theirs and want it preserved in an updated format, but sans alteration.

I can see where you coming from and agree for the most part, but I also think Lucas needs to be reined in. Throwing in a shot of the approach to the Death Star by the Rebels, or the Falcon escaping Mos Elsey...those are fun additions and enhance the story. Even blinking Ewoks, that's just a neat little addition. (Though they could stand to remove Jabba's scene in the first movie again. It's a fun little addition, but at the same time it also really breaks the flow of the narrative and doesn't add any information we didn't already have).

But making it so that Greedo shoots first or Vader vocalizing his discord...that's changing the characters. Granted, Vader screaming "NOOOOO!" is relatively minor, but Greedo shooting first absolutely destroyed Han Solo's character arc in the first movie. At the very least, it destroys the suspense of that sequence in RotJ, when a first time viewer isn't sure if Vader is going to choose his son over the Emperor.



EDIT: As for myself, I'm not a published writer, but I do know about writing and re-writes. And I learned a lesson from that: If it isn't broken, don't fix it. I ran a entertaining and well liked fan fiction series into the ground because I wasn't happy with how it was. I ended up telling the same tale four times. Guess what? People were bored by the second one. Oh sure, some ideas went over well, but for the most part I learned just leave well enough alone.

No art is never completed, it is only abandoned. Some times, you simply have to learn to let it go.

Calixar wrote:

Now, granted, I'm a huge Indiana Jones freak, but I liked Crystal Skull. Of the four films I rank it #3.

I like Star Wars as well, just not as much. The Greedo thing seems stupid to me, but I can live with it. Solo shot first, yeah. You know what, I've seen photos of Lucas wearing that shirt. He thinks it's funny.

IT'S A MOVIE. More, it's HIS MOVIE.

As a writer, I agree with mysterylad. My book that was just published in June this year... I've already thought of changes I'd make to it if I still could.

J.R.R. Tolkien rewrote portions of The Hobbit after it originally came out and before releasing The Lord of the Rings.

Oh... Howard the Duck sucks... I won't fight anyone on that.

Good point about Tolkien, he had to re-write Hobbit so it would fit with The Lord of the Rings. many thing Lucas is doing is to make his original movies fit together with the prequels. I remember a quote from him back in the 70s, saying how the movies he planned,12 at that time, would be one story line. Technology changed and improving the effects makes the Saga look like one. If he really has included the missing Luke scene at Toshi Station and Luke building his lightsaber in Obi-wan's house, I will be happy! Regardless who fires first or Vader says NOOOOO!

And yes, they are his movies, his universe.

As for new movies, I would love some Old Republic based stories, back in the ancient days of conflict between the Republic and Sith Empire.

mysterylad wrote:

Lucas has said on numerous occasions that the rough spots in Star Wars (based on limitations in technology, time, and money) really grate on him. He may sincerely want to erase the embarassment they represent to him...and that's his right. It's a common desire among creative people. The problem here is that the artist's work has been embraced by the audience to such a degree that they think of it as theirs and want it preserved in an updated format, but sans alteration.

I can buy his technology point, and I did like the updated FX.

It weakens when it comes to content. Changing the scene to having Greedo shoot first so that Han doesn't appear to be bad just gives me the impression he wanted to cave to the political correctness, so to speak, of this age. Just like Spielberg going into ET and taking away the FBI agents rifles and guns that they were aiming at the kids when they made their escape.

Rust wrote:

mysterylad wrote:

Dude, if it had been your idea, wouldn't YOU wanna bury the Star Wars Xmas Special?

Actually, the funny thing is if Lucas wasn't so adamant about destroying all traces of the Christmas Special, it likely would have been long forgotten outside hardcore fans anyway. The only reason it's sought after is because Lucas is so embarrassed by it.

I actually have a copy of that, lol. But, I remember when it came out originally, and I missed the beginning for some reason. We got home just in time to see the Boba Fett cartoon, and it was awesome!! then, it went back to Lumpy, and eventually (shudder) Leia singing to Wookies in white robes. YIKES!

Cruel Angel wrote:

I can buy his technology point, and I did like the updated FX.

It weakens when it comes to content. Changing the scene to having Greedo shoot first so that Han doesn't appear to be bad just gives me the impression he wanted to cave to the political correctness, so to speak, of this age. Just like Spielberg going into ET and taking away the FBI agents rifles and guns that they were aiming at the kids when they made their escape.

Wasn't the reason for that because Drew Barrymore refused to allow Spielberg to re-release ET unless they got rid of the guns? You know, the same reason she utterly destroyed Charles Angels for?

Rust wrote:

Wasn't the reason for that because Drew Barrymore refused to allow Spielberg to re-release ET unless they got rid of the guns? You know, the same reason she utterly destroyed Charles Angels for?

Hmm... don't remember anything about Drew being behind the changes... but then I only caught the buzz about the changes themselves. I wasn't an ET fan and never had the want to get it on video.

Wouldn't surprise me though if that turned out to be the case.

Spielberg said in an interview last month that he did it because he didn't think it was right to have police pointing guns at kids. He then said he would never change or alter any of his films ever again and made sure that the original version of ET was made available - and said that's the version people should watch.

mysterylad wrote:

This always puts me in the minority on this subject, but I really don't care that Lucas keeps tinkering with the films.

They're HIS FILMS.

Yes, yes, they're an important part of pop culture and they mean something to all of us, but the bizarre sense of entitlement leading some fans to demonize Lucas for never being satisfied with his cinematic children is beyond me.

They're HIS films. He can play with them all he wants until he's satisfied...heck, even if he's never satisfied. It's his universe; the audience just gets to visit it now and then.

I don't need to preserve the Star Wars films; that childhood wonder lives on in my memory. And I will never be seven again, but as long as Lucas keeps Star Wars alive and keeps updating it to make it palatable to future generations, new seven year olds will keep falling in love with it. And THAT is the goal...not treating as sacred the memories of a graying fandom.

They're HIS FILMS.

Flame away. It'll be easy, 'cause I won't bother arguing. I know I'm the heretic when it comes to this particular topic.

I was going to coment on this but this pretty much sums up what I and the silent masses think of SW and Lucas . This is one of the best posts about this subject I've read sence this debated started in 1997 However if you want to edit or change it that is your choice and I would understand

Love how this is coming up now on the net- testimony by Lucas himself before Congress back in 1988.

"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society.

In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be "replaced" by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.

Attention should be paid to this question of our soul, and not simply to accounting procedures. Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself."

My first reaction was... wow. Lucas retconned his 1988 self. Explains a lot

Lucas is getting obsessive which changing anything and everything. I am not a fan of Star Wars at all, but I got several box sets of the original films from 1995 I got in a lot of VHS tapes I bought, and whomever wants 'em can have 'em.

Anyhow, I think Lucas is on this "I'm invincible!" time of his life (came around the time he got that turkey neck of his as well, I think) and thinks he can do no wrong and that anything he touches becomes gold.

I myself, did like the crystal skulls film, I don't know what fans were complaining about with it. ~shrug~

rdks wrote:

Spielberg said in an interview last month that he did it because he didn't think it was right to have police pointing guns at kids. He then said he would never change or alter any of his films ever again and made sure that the original version of ET was made available - and said that's the version people should watch.

Ehhhh, don't see what was so wrong.....FBI, police and military TODAY would be more likely to point, not to mention USE, guns and tasers and so on at ANYONE, let along kids.

Ok, i'm going to make a rant, that i'm sure will be very controversial.

I don't consider motion pictures the sole ownership of the "artist". why? It takes so many people to make a movie. One artist makes a painting, one artist can sing a song, one artist can write a book. However, a movie, which is influenced by so many people, comes together to create something special.

Lucas wasn't just hindered by "technology", he was held back by producer's, editor's, actor's, etc. All of the things that he says "hindered his vision", is actually what made the movie so special when it came out.

People have mentioned Blade Runner, and almost no movie in the history of film-making has been tampered with as much, and there are so many reasons. The first "theatrical cut" was done by the producer's, who yanked the film away from ridley scott (actually, i like this version, but i know i'm in the minority). Then there was the "director's cut", which really wasn't the director's cut, but was again made by the producer's. There is the "rough cut", which was made before all of these, and even the "final cut" which is actually the true vision of the director (which is just as good as the theatrical cut in my view, however i like having the choice to see all of these versions). The film was passed through so many hands, the fans are divided over which versions they watch, however, they actually have the choice to see all the different versions.

Personally, A Nightmare on Elm Street, is in my opinion, a very underrated cinematic masterpiece, yet it was almost not made. Wes Craven thought he needed 3 times the amount of money to make it, 3 times the amount of time to shoot it, and he wanted it to have a happy ending. Yes, if he had his way, there never would have been a legacy of Freddy Krueger. It was the Producer of the film (whom craven owed for financing the film) that insisted on the ending, leaving the film open for sequels (of which i admit, not all are good). How many people could imagine that the first film could have ended, with no sequels? (i'm pretty sure robert englund wouldn't be where he is today with that happy ending in place).

Other films to bring up would be: tim burton's early works (where he was actually somewhat controlled by producer's) compared to his later works (which are just horrible creations that are out of controll in my opinion). The christopher reeves superman films (the richard Donner cuts, the theatrical releases). The original Star Trek movies (theatrical, and director cuts).

My point, in all of this, is allowing the original to still be seen. That is the movie that came out. That is the movie that had the "magic"(in my opinion), where all the right things happened, and it was a hit. To walk all over that, to basically "spit" in the original fans faces, deserves some sort of movement.

As far as sounding like some "crying grey haired baby", i don't mind the comparison. There are "cries" that babies have, and then there are "war cries", and that is what the fans must do, to ever have their voices heard.

I respect artists, however, unless you write, direct, produce and star in a film all by your lonesome, it is not your movie "completely". You have shared it with the countless actors/extras/editors/producers who all made it what it was.

I wish I still had VHS's of the Star Wars movies since I have a VCR in another room and very few tapes to watch on it.

I agree with bret. He captures my views quite well.

Though I am willing to compromise. I'd watch THIS movie.

Rust wrote:

I agree with bret. He captures my views quite well.

Ditto.

The Ewoks became the dominant predators of Endor by defeating the Weeping Angels precisely because they never blink.

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:

The Ewoks became the dominant predators of Endor by defeating the Weeping Angels precisely because they never blink.

Actually, the Ewoks are all dead because of the debris of the Death Star caused severe climate change, plunging Endor into a global ice age.

Ronpur wrote:

The Ewoks are all dead because of the debris of the Death Star caused severe climate change, plunging Endor into a global ice age.

Ronpur wrote:

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:

The Ewoks became the dominant predators of Endor by defeating the Weeping Angels precisely because they never blink.

Actually, the Ewoks are all dead because of the debris of the Death Star caused severe climate change, plunging Endor into a global ice age.

Rise of the Wampas

Cookie! Cookie!

bret_owen99 raises some good points...films aren't generally created as a solo act. A writer/director is THE driving creative force behind a film, though, especially in the case of Episode IV, during which (by all accounts) Lucas and the British crew were at constant loggerheads and Lucas had to basically fight to get done what he wanted done.

To use a clumsy but useful analogy, a comic book is produced by a lot of people, but I don't think anyone would argue that the letterer has the same creative input as the writer and artist.

Just more food for thought.

Lucas does not these films into his basement,and do the changes himself, he hires people to make the changes. Just as he HIRED people to work on the original movies. They may have been very talented people,and made a lot of contributions to the movies, but they were his employees. Every move they made was approved by him. If he wants to make changes, he has every right to do so. We may not like it, but he does have every right to do so.

If someone else wants to alter his or anyone's movie, without his consent, then that can not be condoned. That is what he was talking about in 1988, with issues such as colorizing old classic B&W films for TV.

Having said that,HAN FIRES FIRST!!