Taking a Dive into Classic Who

Ronpur wrote:

Actually TWO versions of the first episode survive. And both are on the DVD.

I prefer the unaired one....Susan and the Doctor were more mysterious.
Plus Susan's outfit, upon entering the TARDIS, was better than the 1960's English Teen outfit, the one in the unaired pilot made her look more alien, and more sensual.

So The War Machines arrived today, though with some pretty heinous case damage but the DVD was in top shape.

I really enjoyed it. It was a fun story, and the War Machines themselves were extremely well designed (I liked how they incorporated the Battering Arm without making it seem tacked on and the flood light "Eye" was actually rather creepy when it moved up and down). I do wish they'd made a comment about the fact the guns were jammed earlier though, as I wondered if it was a Sound Error that people kept squeezing the trigger and nothing was happening.

I also spotted a goof where the door of a War Machine opened after the tossing of the grenades. Looks like someone yelled Cut prematurely.

Still, a fun adventure that any modern Who fan would feel comfortable with. I'd also like a War Machine toy. I would pay silly amounts of money for one, to be honest.


This is also my first exposure to William Hartnell in the role (Or at least, his first Solo Flight) and it says something about the writers and actors that even after forty plus years, that you can go from the modern series all the way back to the beginning and it's still the same main character. The quirks and personalities might shift, but underneath is still that core foundation that Hartnell set down for all others to follow.

I caught glimmers of Six's temper, Ten's concern (And heartbreak when Dodo sent word she'd be staying behind), Nine's disregard of civil authority, Two and Eleven's childlike wonder and delight, and Three's suave charm.

In a word, William Hartnell's performance was Familiar, because all actors after him have followed in his example. I'm looking forward to getting The Beginnings and contrast and compare this late run with the very beginning.



As an aside, I was in my local Book/Video store the other day and they'd put out a new Doctor Who DVD of Hartnell's that featured The Romans. I must say, that story caught my eye. The other not so much, but the blurb on the back of the case makes The Romans one I might want to track down at some point in the future.

I'm glad you enjoyed War Machines. Its one of my all-time favorites. The Romans is a good one, too. It's definitely a fun one to watch as its written and played for fun but not in a goofy comedy kind of way. The Doctor and his companions are there to relax and enjoy history rather than just be part of it or be around it. A blast. The Rescue , which its paired up with, is pretty good too as a tight two-parter.

Glad you liked it. Hartnell episodes are amazing. They really worked some magic with those episodes.

Hope you enjoyed Ben & Polly. The War Machines is the only complete episode they're in that still exists.

You should pick up The Romans. It's really a brilliant story. I avoided it for years because I hate historicals, but when I finally watched it I was kicking myself for not watching it sooner. The actor who plays Nero does a great job, and him and Hartnell work very well together.

Ben and Polly seemed like a fun duo, though most of the time Polly was brainwashed so that did cut back on banter between the two. Both of them weren't afraid to take shots at one another but still seemed to care about each other. It also boggles my mind how little fashion has changed (Granted, there is that whole 60s Revival in the Late 90s-Early 00s, but still) in 40 years. Polly's outfit at the end of the episode would be considered Modern Chic.

Dodo...*shrug* She was there, I guess. Seemed absurdly abrupt, the way she left the show at the same time I do wonder if Dodo realized she'd never see the Doctor again. The way her message was phrased, I think she thought the Doctor would come back for her eventually.


I think my favorite part of The War Machines had to be when the Doctor went into the club looking for Dodo. That bit amused me, especially since Hartnell likes to carry himself in the role like royalty (Which is understandable, given he is a Time Lord).

Innes Lloyd and Gerry Davis (the bosses of the show at the time) decided to dump the 2 companions - Steven and Dodo - and replace them with a younger, "hipper" duo that would better represent the then-current trends of the 60's. Steven was written out at the end of the preceding story, The Savages. Jackie (Dodo) Lane's contract expired after episode 2 of The War Machines, which is why she suddenly vanishes and never returns.

I certainly didn't miss her. Probably my least favourite companion ever.

Ben & Polly were pretty good together until Jamie showed up. Then Ben started fading away as Jamie got more and more of his scenes and lines. They were fantastic in The Power of the Daleks. When they left, they left together. I like to think that Ben ended up marrying his Duchess (what he called Polly a lot).

Rust wrote:

This is also my first exposure to William Hartnell in the role (Or at least, his first Solo Flight) and it says something about the writers and actors that even after forty plus years, that you can go from the modern series all the way back to the beginning and it's still the same main character. The quirks and personalities might shift, but underneath is still that core foundation that Hartnell set down for all others to follow.

I caught glimmers of Six's temper, Ten's concern (And heartbreak when Dodo sent word she'd be staying behind), Nine's disregard of civil authority, Two and Eleven's childlike wonder and delight, and Three's suave charm.

In a word, William Hartnell's performance was Familiar, because all actors after him have followed in his example. I'm looking forward to getting The Beginnings and contrast and compare this late run with the very beginning.

I find that interesting that you say this. I wonder if the actors have done this on purpose, or was it just coincidence? I have always found Hartnell's performance to one of the Doctors who evolved the most from his early episodes. I think this is what was intended with Colin, but we never got the chance to see his evolution. I don't really see McCoy as evolving, so much as having a sudden change.

Rust wrote:

So The War Machines arrived today, though with some pretty heinous case damage but the DVD was in top shape.

I really enjoyed it. It was a fun story, and the War Machines themselves were extremely well designed (I liked how they incorporated the Battering Arm without making it seem tacked on and the flood light "Eye" was actually rather creepy when it moved up and down). I do wish they'd made a comment about the fact the guns were jammed earlier though, as I wondered if it was a Sound Error that people kept squeezing the trigger and nothing was happening.

I also spotted a goof where the door of a War Machine opened after the tossing of the grenades. Looks like someone yelled Cut prematurely.

Still, a fun adventure that any modern Who fan would feel comfortable with. I'd also like a War Machine toy. I would pay silly amounts of money for one, to be honest.


This is also my first exposure to William Hartnell in the role (Or at least, his first Solo Flight) and it says something about the writers and actors that even after forty plus years, that you can go from the modern series all the way back to the beginning and it's still the same main character. The quirks and personalities might shift, but underneath is still that core foundation that Hartnell set down for all others to follow.

I caught glimmers of Six's temper, Ten's concern (And heartbreak when Dodo sent word she'd be staying behind), Nine's disregard of civil authority, Two and Eleven's childlike wonder and delight, and Three's suave charm.

In a word, William Hartnell's performance was Familiar, because all actors after him have followed in his example. I'm looking forward to getting The Beginnings and contrast and compare this late run with the very beginning.



As an aside, I was in my local Book/Video store the other day and they'd put out a new Doctor Who DVD of Hartnell's that featured The Romans. I must say, that story caught my eye. The other not so much, but the blurb on the back of the case makes The Romans one I might want to track down at some point in the future.

Try The Dead Planet sometime.

Rust, if you want to see more of Ben and Polly, who do make a really great team, seek out Lost in Time on dvd. It collects the orphaned episodes of William Hartnell's and Patrick Troughton 's incomplete serials. The Troughton discs contain episodes from Underwater Menace, The Moonbase, and The Faceless Ones which have them in it. There's also The Tenth Planet, Hartnell's last and the Cybermen"s first serial, on vhs if you can find it.

BTW, the thing I enjoy most about William Hartnell's portrayal of the Doctor is the duality of his performance. He can be gentle and paternal one minute and be fiery, unpredictable, and dangerous in the next. Others have their "mood swings", but I don't believe any other actor achieves this as well as Hartnell. It's quite excellent. Or I should say, it's quite compelling. Say what you will about him flubbing his lines occasionally, but from an acting standpoint when he was on his game he was on.

Conundrum time!

Revelation of the Daleks and Battlefield arrived today, and I'm not certain which one to watch tonight. Course, there is also the poor neglected The Armageddon Factor still to get through too.

Oooh, I'm not keen on Revelation, but just my opinion. Haven't seen Battlefield yet, so I'd be very interested to hear your review of that particular story.

If it was me, I would go with Battlefield, but only because of UNIT and the Brig!

Well, two votes for Battlefield and Battlefield I did watch.

The story was...well, to be honest, the story was weird. A Nuclear Missile Convoy guarded by UNIT breaks down near an archeological dig site which just happens to be home to the legendary Excalibur. Excalibur is transmitting a distress beacon that's shooting backwards, forwards, and sideways in Time, drawing the Doctor and Ace. Their arrival necessitates UNIT into calling Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart out of retirement. However, the signal is also drawing the attention of a parallel dimension, Excalibur's home dimension, and an evil Sorceress Queen who has enslaved a Demon and wants to seize Excalibur and face the legendary King Aurthur in battle.

When the Queen's army and her pet Demon fail to raise Aurthur from his slumber, the Queen resorts to more sinister methods...the activation of the Nuclear Warhead.



Really, Battlefield is either shoddily written or a masterpiece of subtlety, because while at the time the motivations for much of the story seem just flat out bizarre, by the end of it things start making sense, especially why the Queen is doing what she's doing. So overall, I find it a fun romp. Also expect some Wibbley, Wobbley Timey Wimey.

I especially loved Liz Shaw's name drop (On the UNIT Pass the Doctor handed Ace) and the triumphant return of Bessie.


This is also my first exposure to Sylvester McCoy in the role, and here we have a Doctor that is mighty familiar to a New Who fan, as he's got the same sort of air about him as Nine and Ten had. Madcap and deathly serious, he honestly reminds me most of William Hartnell with the way he carries himself like royalty and is generally mysterious.

I do wish he wouldn't roar quite so much, though. It's like he's channeling the Pirate Captain when he does that.


Ace was a solid companion that I enjoyed a lot. Gotta love a Woman who likes a big boom. It's a surprisingly useful skill to have around.


The Special Effects were decidedly lacking for a late 80s program, I hate to say. I'm not quite as forgiving with Late 80s onward special effects simply because we're now entering the time period in which I grew up in and it's also Star Trek: The Next Generation era. The effects are akin to what I'd have seen in Tom Baker and Peter Davidson's era. Even the alternate dimension guns were slightly groan worthy with their sparkler tips. Also, the Title Sequence for McCoy's era is gaudy, isn't it? Less money sunk into Late 80s CG effects might have helped bolster the budget for something a little less primitive.

But if the Special Effects were rather groan inducing, the practical effects and especially the makeup was phenomenal. The Destroyer looked absolutely amazing (Which made me sad given he gets disposed of relatively quickly), and the viewing globe was a simple effect put to good use.


But the one thing that just grated the nerves was the Late 80s Synthesizer music. I get it, it's the late 80s and late 80s usually translates into obnoxious when it comes to musical selection, but crap. You're dealing with forces from another dimension that still do battle in gothic armor (Costuming was very good, I thought). A Gregorian chant or something more subdued wasn't available? And they put that music everywhere. In Classic Who, it was predominantly music free, and in New Who the soundtrack is muted enough it blends into the scenery, but the music of Battlefield just will not let you forget it's there. It's like an obnoxious friend barging in and starting to blab on and on about their day when you're trying to watch the TV.


So, to recap:

Story - Strange.
Special Effects - Primitive, even for their time and budget
Practical Effects (Costumes, Makeup, Set Design) - Fantastic
Music - Merciful God in Heaven, Make It Stop!

Rust wrote:

Well, two votes for Battlefield and Battlefield I did watch.

The story was...well, to be honest, the story was weird. A Nuclear Missile Convoy guarded by UNIT breaks down near an archeological dig site which just happens to be home to the legendary Excalibur. Excalibur is transmitting a distress beacon that's shooting backwards, forwards, and sideways in Time, drawing the Doctor and Ace. Their arrival necessitates UNIT into calling Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart out of retirement. However, the signal is also drawing the attention of a parallel dimension, Excalibur's home dimension, and an evil Sorceress Queen who has enslaved a Demon and wants to seize Excalibur and face the legendary King Aurthur in battle.

When the Queen's army and her pet Demon fail to raise Aurthur from his slumber, the Queen resorts to more sinister methods...the activation of the Nuclear Warhead.



Really, Battlefield is either shoddily written or a masterpiece of subtlety, because while at the time the motivations for much of the story seem just flat out bizarre, by the end of it things start making sense, especially why the Queen is doing what she's doing. So overall, I find it a fun romp. Also expect some Wibbley, Wobbley Timey Wimey.

I especially loved Liz Shaw's name drop (On the UNIT Pass the Doctor handed Ace) and the triumphant return of Bessie.


This is also my first exposure to Sylvester McCoy in the role, and here we have a Doctor that is mighty familiar to a New Who fan, as he's got the same sort of air about him as Nine and Ten had. Madcap and deathly serious, he honestly reminds me most of William Hartnell with the way he carries himself like royalty and is generally mysterious.

I do wish he wouldn't roar quite so much, though. It's like he's channeling the Pirate Captain when he does that.


Ace was a solid companion that I enjoyed a lot. Gotta love a Woman who likes a big boom. It's a surprisingly useful skill to have around.


The Special Effects were decidedly lacking for a late 80s program, I hate to say. I'm not quite as forgiving with Late 80s onward special effects simply because we're now entering the time period in which I grew up in and it's also Star Trek: The Next Generation era. The effects are akin to what I'd have seen in Tom Baker and Peter Davidson's era. Even the alternate dimension guns were slightly groan worthy with their sparkler tips. Also, the Title Sequence for McCoy's era is gaudy, isn't it? Less money sunk into Late 80s CG effects might have helped bolster the budget for something a little less primitive.

But if the Special Effects were rather groan inducing, the practical effects and especially the makeup was phenomenal. The Destroyer looked absolutely amazing (Which made me sad given he gets disposed of relatively quickly), and the viewing globe was a simple effect put to good use.


But the one thing that just grated the nerves was the Late 80s Synthesizer music. I get it, it's the late 80s and late 80s usually translates into obnoxious when it comes to musical selection, but crap. You're dealing with forces from another dimension that still do battle in gothic armor (Costuming was very good, I thought). A Gregorian chant or something more subdued wasn't available? And they put that music everywhere. In Classic Who, it was predominantly music free, and in New Who the soundtrack is muted enough it blends into the scenery, but the music of Battlefield just will not let you forget it's there. It's like an obnoxious friend barging in and starting to blab on and on about their day when you're trying to watch the TV.


So, to recap:

Story - Strange.
Special Effects - Primitive, even for their time and budget
Practical Effects (Costumes, Makeup, Set Design) - Fantastic
Music - Merciful God in Heaven, Make It Stop!

That's the problem with the McCoy era....too much was put into special effects....and they were crappy special effects, even for the late 1980's , and that's saying something. Music stunk, too. Should have put more effort into story writing instead.

Eh, the story was serviceable. Like I said, once you get to the end of it and you have time to chew on it, the story makes sense...to a point. There was still a lot of goofiness going on (Like how Morgraine and Mordred got back to Earth after returning home once Destroyer was loosed).

Beyond the music, the jump cuts bugged me. It seemed like the camera couldn't keep still on a shot for more then a few seconds.

Honestly, it's kinda put me off the McCoy era a bit if that's the kind of production value I'd have to watch. I mean, sure Doctor Who's never been big on budget, but even at the most shoe string they've managed to make the most with what was available. But this? It didn't even seem like they were trying. All the shots of the Helicopter flying...it was pretty bloody obvious they were just circling the darn thing over the same field you see it lift off from, because the camera keeps following it over the blasted Trees.

Now either England is covered in Virgin Wilderness, or its sloppy camera work, plain and simple.


I dunno. It just struck me that Battlefield seemed more a "Don't give a Sh..." production then the others of my collection. Not meaning that against the actors (The performances were quite good, even if Mordred was hamming) but the production crew. Seemed like they just said "Good Enough" and took a decent tale and burdened it with extremely easily overcome shortcomings. For example, the Green Backblasts coming from the Castle...Church? It changes between scenes...anyway, those Green Backblasts when the Destroyer is celebrating his freedom...were those really necessary? All you're doing is making it even more obvious that Castle/Church - which changes locations as often as venues - is superimposed on the screen.

If you like McCoy's portrayal of the Doctor and want to check him out again, look for Ghost Light, Curse of Fenric, or the splendid Remembrance of the Daleks. The music can still be grating, but he - and Spohie as Ace - are at their best. The rest of his stories can be kind of dodgy.

If I remember right, they only had enough funds to rent the helicopter for something like 15 minutes, lol. So, yes, they just shot a bunch of quick shots of it flying and inserted them everywhere. (It was actually 3 hours, according to the DVD extras)

Its all about the money in McCoy's era. And the massive lack of it. Budget being cut because the BBC wanted the show gone. So, yes, effects looked cheap, production was rush, and the Tardis set was a console and a fabric back drop in a dark studio.....the last time we are in the Tardis until the movie.

Given that, I love what McCoy brought to the screen, in his last 2 seasons. And I would have love what he brought in his 4th, too, if he had been given the chance.

Oh, I almost forgot, being a big Pertwee fan, I loved the return of UNIT, the Brig and Bessie. I also like the way UNIT was now a real international group. And the uniforms were their own uniform with the blue beret. Just as the UN used in those days. Back before it became "Unified", yuck!

Ronpur wrote:

If I remember right, they only had enough funds to rent the helicopter for something like 15 minutes, lol. So, yes, they just shot a bunch of quick shots of it flying and inserted them everywhere. (It was actually 3 hours, according to the DVD extras)

Oh, I had no problem with the fact they had to do the Helicopter shot cheap...but you don't have to include the scenes where it flies over the trees and makes it obvious they haven't gone anywhere.

Quote :

Its all about the money in McCoy's era. And the massive lack of it. Budget being cut because the BBC wanted the show gone. So, yes, effects looked cheap, production was rush, and the Tardis set was a console and a fabric back drop in a dark studio.....the last time we are in the Tardis until the movie.

I was wondering what the deal was with the TARDIS.

And to be honest, the effects wouldn't have been quite as bad if it hadn't contrasted poorly with the decent costumes and excellent makeup on the Destroyer.

Quote :

Given that, I love what McCoy brought to the screen, in his last 2 seasons. And I would have love what he brought in his 4th, too, if he had been given the chance.

He was fun to watch, but seemed a bit bi-polar. One minute he's deathly serious, the next minute he's acting like a clown (Though I got a laugh out of his "Wake Up Call" and when he walked by the dueling Knights with a raising of his hat). It's like David Tennant without the Melancholy.

Quote :

Oh, I almost forgot, being a big Pertwee fan, I loved the return of UNIT, the Brig and Bessie. I also like the way UNIT was now a real international group. And the uniforms were their own uniform with the blue beret. Just as the UN used in those days. Back before it became "Unified", yuck!

Seriously. I'm glad I got Battlefield just for the massive Pertwee era fanwank in the Liz Shaw name drop and Bessie. My only regret is they didn't get Benton back. Didn't seem right, having the Brig without his Number One Man.

Still, I did love his line about the new Brig. "Good Man?" Oh Alistair, you sexist pig.

Rust wrote:

Ronpur wrote:

If I remember right, they only had enough funds to rent the helicopter for something like 15 minutes, lol. So, yes, they just shot a bunch of quick shots of it flying and inserted them everywhere. (It was actually 3 hours, according to the DVD extras)

Oh, I had no problem with the fact they had to do the Helicopter shot cheap...but you don't have to include the scenes where it flies over the trees and makes it obvious they haven't gone anywhere.

Quote :

Its all about the money in McCoy's era. And the massive lack of it. Budget being cut because the BBC wanted the show gone. So, yes, effects looked cheap, production was rush, and the Tardis set was a console and a fabric back drop in a dark studio.....the last time we are in the Tardis until the movie.

I was wondering what the deal was with the TARDIS.

And to be honest, the effects wouldn't have been quite as bad if it hadn't contrasted poorly with the decent costumes and excellent makeup on the Destroyer.

Quote :

Given that, I love what McCoy brought to the screen, in his last 2 seasons. And I would have love what he brought in his 4th, too, if he had been given the chance.

He was fun to watch, but seemed a bit bi-polar. One minute he's deathly serious, the next minute he's acting like a clown (Though I got a laugh out of his "Wake Up Call" and when he walked by the dueling Knights with a raising of his hat). It's like David Tennant without the Melancholy.

Quote :

Oh, I almost forgot, being a big Pertwee fan, I loved the return of UNIT, the Brig and Bessie. I also like the way UNIT was now a real international group. And the uniforms were their own uniform with the blue beret. Just as the UN used in those days. Back before it became "Unified", yuck!

Seriously. I'm glad I got Battlefield just for the massive Pertwee era fanwank in the Liz Shaw name drop and Bessie. My only regret is they didn't get Benton back. Didn't seem right, having the Brig without his Number One Man.

Still, I did love his line about the new Brig. "Good Man?" Oh Alistair, you sexist pig.

Benton would have been great. maybe he can be in Sarah Jane to sell Luke his first car from his used car lot......(Madwryn Undead)

Actually, seeing as how John Levene isn't doing much of anything, I would do cartwheels of joy if he appeared as the New Brigadier in New Who at some point.

So I just watched Revelation of the Daleks, and I gotta say that was an extremely fun story. Really didn't need to be three parts, could have easily been cut down to two, but in general it moved at a rather steady clip and I never found myself bored with the story.

I do enjoy seeing them use Davros' manipulative side that he displayed in Genesis when trying to talk the one gal into killing the Chief Embalmer (Who I've seen somewhere before).

I especially enjoyed the resolution of the story, and how the Doctor really had absolutely nothing to do with it. He was just part of the "distractions" that made it possible for those "Renegade" Daleks to sneak onto Necros.


And again, I do like Colin's take on the Doctor though I honestly don't understand why Peri puts up with the abuse. Seriously, Colin's Doctor is a dick to her. She might not be the world's best actress, but her character does nothing to deserve that crap.

Speaking of Peri's performance, better then The Two Doctors, but still nothing to really write home about. She comes with two settings: Whiny and Ultra Whiny. "Can't we go back to the TARDIS?" Considering you snuck onto the compound, and it was a decent hike to it, I'd say that would be counter productive at this point, Peri.


The Beginnings arrived today, so I'll probably give An Unearthly Child a spin tomorrow, and see where it all began.

Rust wrote:

Actually, seeing as how John Levene isn't doing much of anything, I would do cartwheels of joy if he appeared as the New Brigadier in New Who at some point.

Hope not....be awful to see Benton in charge of a military organization that has no regards for human rights or anything....UNIT went to heck in NuWho.

Rust wrote:

...the Chief Embalmer (Who I've seen somewhere before).

That would be the brilliant Clive Swift. Best known as Hyacinth Bucket's husband on Keeping Up Appearances, and known to New Who fans as Mr. Copper from Voyage of the Damned.

The Castellan wrote:

Rust wrote:

Actually, seeing as how John Levene isn't doing much of anything, I would do cartwheels of joy if he appeared as the New Brigadier in New Who at some point.

Hope not....be awful to see Benton in charge of a military organization that has no regards for human rights or anything....UNIT went to heck in NuWho.

I would love to see him meet up with Captain Jack, if Mike Yates doesn't get there first...LOL.

But, he would be great on Sarah Jane. I think his easy going personality would fit in great there.