The End of Time, Part Two - For those who HAVE seen it!

The 2nd Doctor Roberts wrote:

anybody miss the old days when a companion would leave and never be mentioned again? Ever?

After about 42,597th time during series 3 that character development time for Martha was passed up so the Doctor could moon over Rose, or Martha could fume over the Doctor mooning over Rose, the answer is: YES.

I usually lurk but now I can finally start looking at threads like this. I'd fallen WAY behind in my Whoniverse watching, as in I've been trying to avoid spoilers for something like two years! In the last month or so I watched The Infinite Quest, Sarah Jane Adventures series 1, Torchwood series 2, Doctor Who series 4, Sarah Jane Adventures series 2, Torchwood Children of Earth, and finally Doctor Who the Specials. So I watched End of Time P2 on Friday and can at last comment on it....

And I don't know what I think!

This is so weird. I've been a fan since I was about 9. I've seen all the episodes that exist, heard the audios etc of those lost, read more novels, novellas, short stories and comics than seems sane, listened to quite a stack of Big Finish stuff. I've enjoyed hundreds of Doctor Who stories but I've never felt like this. I've always known what I thought. Sure I'd always find at least something I liked and sometimes something I didn't, but in the end I'd know how I felt about it overall. Love it or not. And this time I don't know if I liked it or not!

I asked my parents what they thought (part of why I fell behind watching is Who is a family thing for us) and my mother said "The Doctor is a crybaby!" And I both wanted to defend the Doctor and agree with her. Looking back I think in his own way 10 was as much of and emotional wreck as the supposedly "damaged" 9 right from the start. At heart(s) they were the same man running away from himself. 10's emotions were raw and on the surface, a 9 with his protective shell ripped away. He gave into his emotions all the time (I'm not talking all the tears but things like knocking Harriet Jones out of power because he was angry at her, which left space for the Master to become PM, that sort of thing.)He used his hyper, grinning energy and friends to distract himself from what he didn't want to deal with. Just a thought off the top of my head. Anyway, I think I'm going to have to reexamine who I think the 10th Doctor really is, or rather was.

But back to EoT, I guess it was and example of the best and worst of the RTD era. Like usual it is full of plot bits and details that have me saying "Just don't think about it." Like usual it is full of angst, humor, and self indulgence, all of it turned up as far as it can go for the big goodbye story. I just wish I knew if I "liked" it.

(Sorry I wrote so much. Happens to us lurkers when we get started sometimes. )

I'm also not sure if I really liked End of Time or not either. There were good parts like Wilf and bad parts like the whole overindulgence. Not sure if the episode would have been any better without long, long, long goodbye. It's certainly the RTD trademark.

Come to think of the plot, didn't the Doctor originally say that he destroyed (most) of the daleks along with the timelords and he couldn't save one without the other? So when Gallifrey reappears doesn't that mean that Daleks got loose again? Aside from the crashed ships around the capitol I sure didn't see any Daleks.

It was a good episode. I just couldn't get passed the ever ending crying. Knowing the tenth doctor is leaving. Don't think I ever will either.

I watched this one again tonight. Still loved it, but the unanswered questions still bother me. Probably more so that Series 5 has come and gone and I still don't know who the female Time Lord is.

DacaZ wrote:

I watched this one again tonight. Still loved it, but the unanswered questions still bother me. Probably more so that Series 5 has come and gone and I still don't know who the female Time Lord is.

I wanted to know who the mystery woman is Donna's grandfather saw. I thought it was old Prime Minister. NOT SAXON! If that's what your thinking.

Oh would of liked to know myself. Maybe as I watch it more I'll get the answers.

Well...I don't know what to say...

I think part of my problem was cramming five years of DW in a week and a half. We got addicted quick and watched 4-5 epis a night. More if a weekend night. Therefore, I am sleep deprived and emotionally raw.

I was really sorry to see the 10th go. It was HARD to watch. Although, I think that RTD really overdid the sad doctor bit too much. But Tennant was really good at making you believe that both his hearts were getting ripped out and stomped on. There were many times when I thought I couldn't bear his suffering any longer.

Being new to the franchise, I'm not too picky about plot devices. We have to stop and wicki stuff just to make sure we're following sometimes. So, I had no big beef with the story overall.

The long goodbye was nice for me and also so sad. Poor Wilfred and his four knocks...ugh. That was rough.

We went to bed sad and mourning our tenth doctor. Even though we had already seen series 5, we had just spent so much time with Tennant.

This morning we re-watched the Eleventh Hour. Everything old was new again. We were happier. The Doctor lives!

Yeah, Tennant's temper tantrum when Wilfred knocked...it drives me bonkers to watch. Tennant had a spectacular run up to "The Waters of Mars", and then for whatever reason he started acting like a spoiled little brat.

Yeah the knowledge of an impending demise is a helluva chip to be carrying around, but it could have been handled a lot better. Not to mention, the whole "Death" angle was a nerf sword that RTD kept insisting was sharp. The viewers know the Doctor will regenerate. We knew it before the special even aired. The kind of intense "THE DOCTOR SHALL DIE!" story is better left for the thirteenth Doctor's finale - as it's never been addressed if he can go beyond that.

As it stood? It was all much ado about nothing, and all it did was make Ten seem to be a massive egomaniac who was "too important" to die.

maybe it's because he was "too important" to die

bret_owen99 wrote:

maybe it's because he was "too important" to die

"Everything has its time and everything dies." ~ The Doctor

Rust wrote:

The kind of intense "THE DOCTOR SHALL DIE!" story is better left for the thirteenth Doctor's finale - as it's never been addressed if he can go beyond that.

I agree. And if they decide to introduce the Fourteenth Doctor, they should keep him completely secret until 13 dies.

In "The End of Time," I didn't realize that 10 thought he was going to flat-out die until after I'd seen it. His THREE speeches to Wilfred about dying felt over done since we already knew he'd turn into Matt Smith at the end.

Spoilers for Classic Who regeneration episodes below:

Spoiler:

All the same, I did like "The End of Time," but felt that those speeches kind of dragged out the running time.

well, if you want to really delve into what set this regeneration apart from all the other's, let's look at ten's doctor.

at this point in time, even before he got the warning he was going to die, he was miserable, and companionless. his heart had been broken twice(i'm counting rose and donna, not martha, because he just sort of liked having her around). his "song" had gone from being happy and full of wonder, to being bitter and full of sadness. then, on top of that, you're told you're going to die soon. jeez, could you put a cherry on top?

so, we get to the end of time. the battle between the doctor and the master. he thinks it's going to be the master(or the master race, which was pretty cool, but mostly due to simm's acting). now along comes the timelords, rassilon, and all of the timewar hanging over earth. will that kill him? nope.

he thinks he made it. he thinks he has a chance for redemption. he can pick up a few more companions, find his love for the universe again, be the man he was in series 2(one of my favorite over-all, due to the acting range of tennant). then wilfred knocks. game over man, game over.

anyways, we have the first time that a doctor has left(i'm not counting mccoy) without a companion to say goodbye to. what do you do if you're a timelord? you say goodbye to all of them. you hold back death, just for a little longer, so that you can find closure to your character, so that at the end, you aren't so sad and bitter anymore(because you weren't given a chance to turn it all around).

that last 20 minutes, to me, was like the end of the return of the king. you got to say goodbye to every character, and find closure(in this case, it was the doctor finding his closure).

one of the most passed over pieces was the verity lambert piece(the granddaughter of nurse redfern). he just walks up, says he's the doctor, and then asks if she was happy, in the end. when verity looks at him, asks him "were you?", he says nothing and walks off, i break down every time. that scene shows what an ending it was for ten. at the beginning he was so full of life, and love(tooth and claw was a great example), and now he's so sad, and miserable.