The End of Time

lol, honestly though I don't think we'll get the anagram thing this time. Wilf was created as a one off character in Voyage of the Damned, where his is Credited as Wilfred Mott, so RTD would not have been in anagram mode. Unless it was an after thought. So his use as Donna's grandfather was a necessity and a great treat for us all.

Not saying he won't turn out to be a time lord, or even a very important human, just saying if the anagram thing is there, it would most certainly be an after thought.

Great: "Like a car", the Silver Cloak, Wilf, the cafe scene, the mind meld, "shimmah" and the Time Lords cliffhanger.

Horrible: Super powered Master, eating, spittle, pointless aliens, ObamaObamaObamaObama, the whole Master transmogrification thing.

I think the good balanced out the bad overall. Could have been so much better though.

Need to keep in mind that the 9th Doctor's regeneration 2-parter had a similarly silly start to it too. It made it all the more effective when things became serious and the real story took hold. The difference here is that we know what's coming and are expecting something pretty epic from the onset, so all the silliness just feels awkward.

I'm not a RTD hater, but I think I finally see why so many are ready for him to move on. Still expecting great things next week.

terrasolo wrote:

greenk9 wrote:

O.K. my crazy wild guesses:

W-i-l-f-r-e-d M-o-t-t= T-i-m-e-l-o-r-d o-f?
or T-i-m-e-l-or-d fo (father of?) that is what his name can spell out if rearranged....

manipulate time: rassilon or doc's dad?

timothy dalton- Omega- hand of omega?

but you left off the W

greenk9 wrote:

terasolo- yes left out w...er well can't think of words with fow, wof, ofw...but at lest some of his name does spell timelord.

You do realize of course that with the remaining letters, the anagram of Wilfred Mott gives us...

Time Lord WTF

Which is pretty much what I'm going to be thinking if that actually comes to pass.

Who watched this on BBC America? I am trying to find out if they cut it down to fit an hour slot with commercials.

terrasolo wrote:

Who watched this on BBC America? I am trying to find out if they cut it down to fit an hour slot with commercials.

Hour and 15 minutes with commercials.

Clavius wrote:

terrasolo wrote:

greenk9 wrote:

O.K. my crazy wild guesses:

W-i-l-f-r-e-d M-o-t-t= T-i-m-e-l-o-r-d o-f?
or T-i-m-e-l-or-d fo (father of?) that is what his name can spell out if rearranged....

manipulate time: rassilon or doc's dad?

timothy dalton- Omega- hand of omega?

but you left off the W

greenk9 wrote:

terasolo- yes left out w...er well can't think of words with fow, wof, ofw...but at lest some of his name does spell timelord.

You do realize of course that with the remaining letters, the anagram of Wilfred Mott gives us...

Time Lord WTF

Which is pretty much what I'm going to be thinking if that actually comes to pass.

oh dear...ha- didn't think that way- of course my brain is quite scrambled after this episode...but some of my crazy wild guesses have come true in the past. This one is a little too far fetched. ha.

Wilfrid was a late addition after the actor who played Donna's father died before they were into filming that series too much, so he was brought in, something of a triumph out of tragedy.

Tuf wrote:

terrasolo wrote:

Who watched this on BBC America? I am trying to find out if they cut it down to fit an hour slot with commercials.

Hour and 15 minutes with commercials.

oh good, so they didn't cut it up then, it would seem.

anyone else think this might end up being a "who shot JR?", and the whole of part one, and most of part two is just nightmares the doctor is having before he regenerates? anyone see jacob's ladder(old horror movie), same concept. the more you try to hold onto life, the worst you're delusions become. would explain the time lords, and the master, donna, and anything else that rtd will throw in to haunt the doctor.

That would make more sense, as The Doctor constantly thinks/regrets what happened to his people, but this sounds like 'The Forgotten', yet, RTD did take some of THe 7th Dr's written stories....

Hi all,

I was rather disappointed with who picked up the Masters ring. I was hoping for it to be Lucy, Donna, or the Rani.

I have mixed feelings about Lucy. The Doctor says she was manipulated, but she did seem to be enjoying in all the Master's destruction before. I don't know. There was that issue of domestic violence there as well, so that may have played a part. It's a shame that the potion she threw at him doesn't have a more permanent result because he apparently heals himself in the gate.

Maybe with the Time Lords being back they can somehow help Donna cope after she remembers?

Overall, I don't really know what to think of the ep. I liked the first half, and the parts with Wilf. The parts with the Master going insane really put me off. It's like they created this whole new character and almost just happen to call him "The Master". I wish they would have left him as Derek Jacobi. Maybe, if he regenerates again, we'll have a somewhat proper Master back.

The first thing I saw when I saw Timothy Dalton's glove was 'Hand of Omega', but then I thought of the reserection glove from Torchwood, of which there are two different versions (I think I'm remembering correctly, that the one they used on Owen was dif from the first glove they had). But, if in fact it's a 'reserection' glove, why/how could he use it to destroy the female Time Lord?

I'm kind of concerned about all this Time Lord rage they're showing with Timothy Dalton, but I guess it's during a war, and these are dif Time Lords than we've seen before.

And what about all those filming pics that came out a few months ago? There were some with the same actress that played Joan in Human Nature, and it apparently is her grand daughter signing copies of her book at a bookstore (I think you see the title is 'A Journal of Impossible Things') and the Doctor is talking to her. Then there were other pics where it had just turned Jan 1, 2005, and Rose and Jackie are fighting, then a beat up looking Doctor comes up to Rose, asks her the year, then tells her it's going to be a great year for her. Are these just fans things, or maybe RTD trying to throw us off? This combined with Donna remembering, Wilf, the Master, the Time Lords, regeneration... that's a lot to fit into 75 mins! I just really hope they do a good job with it. Also, there was an article a few days ago with RTD hinting that we might not have a proper regeneration scene. I hope we get some type. I'm kind of thinking that it might be another repeat of the Time Lords having something to do with his regeneration.

Ok, just my thoughts. Thanks!!

Quote :

I wish they would have left him as Derek Jacobi

I agree a bit with you there. I love John Simms in the role, but I would have liked Jacobi to have had at least an episode or two as The Master before he regenerated. There was a lot of potential there.

DacaZ wrote:

Quote :

I wish they would have left him as Derek Jacobi

I agree a bit with you there. I love John Simms in the role, but I would have liked Jacobi to have had at least an episode or two as The Master before he regenerated. There was a lot of potential there.

Yeah, Derek was fantastic! But I spose the case is similar to Paul Mcgann's, he jus didn't get a chance.

Jon

I thought it was pure trash -- easily the worst Doctor Who episode I've ever seen.

I enjoyed it as much as possible, considering that my favorite Doctor is going to regenerate in Part Two...of course, that goes with the territory being a DW fan, so I'll try not to dwell on that too much...but I loved Wilf, and the Master's madness was at once frightening and hilarious! I'm at the edge of my seat, waiting for the next part...it's gonna be amazing!

Wes Crayon wrote:

I thought it was pure trash -- easily the worst Doctor Who episode I've ever seen.

In ways, your probably right. There was alot of stuff that was completely erelevant and useless, like turning the human race into himself....just pointless. But it wasn't "trash" or "the worst Doctor Who episode ever". Like loads of people have said, it was like watching half a film. We need to see the second half to see whats going on. Who knows, the Master might have needed a race of himself for a purpose?

There was no sense of explanatory. Nothing made any sence, but as I said above. We need to see the second half.

I havent really enjoyed any of the specials this year. Even The Waters Of Mars was a bit disappointing with the constant info dumps of people dying, then of course her blowing her brains out was totally unnecessary in my opinion.

I hope Moff gives me a reason to look forward to Who again.

I really liked the second series over all... the first was cool, it was nice tight writing, great acting by Eccelston... the second series was fun, a new Doctor, old companions....

The third.... meh, except for Human Nature and the Master trilogy... and the 4th series was just... a bit lame especially with the ending and Davros, the build up and he did nothing but just sit there and ask Dalek Cann questions...

The specials have been weak but so has every Christmas Special since Runnaway Bride... Personally I liked Christmas Invasion...

Now back on topic... even if it is a two-part story, writing should be tight... and this was a bit laxed. But then again it could suffer from Phantom Menace Syndrom... meaning, Phantom Menace could have been great and still would have sucked compared to the hype of that film.... The End of Time was so hyped up... that it doesn't matter what we got, nothing could live up to the hype... so it wasn't quite far to the episode going into it....

Of all the specials so far this year, I guess Waters of Mars would be my fav. Again, not fantastic, but it's okay. Have to wait and see how EoT part 2 is.

I absolutely hated Series 1. To me, Eccleston just seemed like a real jerk. The only ep I liked out of there was Father's Day.

With Series 2, it was better, but we again had the problem of Rose, and the dripping, oozing, soap opera romantic crap. I have Rose-overload. God bless Sarah Jane returning.

Series 3 was good. I really liked Martha, but again, we have the 'making puppy dog eyes at the Doctor' thing. But she was a strong character and could hold her own.

I really, really enjoyed Series 4. I think Donna was just what the show needed: 'a mate'. A real tough mix of SarahJane/ Tegan/ Ace and with a touch of Lalla Ward I think.

I really hope that for Series 5 they don't redo all the romantic stuff with Amy. I think they made Rose and Martha too similar in that respect. And I hope they don't make Matt Smith too wussy. Oh well. We'll have to wait and see. Someone mentioned that maybe the Silurians are coming back??

My sister keeps telling me that Matt Smith is sitting in the background at the cafe in EoT Part 1. Have others seen this? And a dark-robed figure at the church with Wilf. Does anyone else think a White/ Black Guardian thing might be going on? Or is that just making things too complex.

I think I'm in the boat of it's just part one...so I'll wait and see. I remember loving utopia and the sound of drums but was kind of let down by the last of the time lords.

I know for sure I will feel very blue when david leaves- I just hope he goes out with a bang. I also feel strongly that poor wilf will not make it- still remember the "sorry for your loss- the loss that is to come" from that lady from the shadow proclamation. I did not hate/love this episode so far...it is odd in this age of internet and info overload that not so much has leaked out- which is good.

On a few forums they are really bashing rtd- but I'm sort of the odd gal out in saying I like his writing- just sometimes I think he is rather cruel to his characters...he has turned the doc's suffering up to 11 in this one. I am looking so forward to part two but also dreading it-I remember at age 8 reeling from poor tom falling from the tower- seeing this new blond fella and being very confused. Logopolis was my first doc episode-so oddly regeneration was quite shocking for me...but I looked forward to seeing the new guy. Wonder if he will regenerate at the end or will we get to see matt a little more than just 5 minutes?

It should've been called "Plot Holes A-Go-Go."

Christian wrote:

I really liked the second series over all... the first was cool, it was nice tight writing, great acting by Eccelston... the second series was fun, a new Doctor, old companions....

The third.... meh, except for Human Nature and the Master trilogy... and the 4th series was just... a bit lame especially with the ending and Davros, the build up and he did nothing but just sit there and ask Dalek Cann questions...

The specials have been weak but so has every Christmas Special since Runnaway Bride... Personally I liked Christmas Invasion...

Now back on topic... even if it is a two-part story, writing should be tight... and this was a bit laxed. But then again it could suffer from Phantom Menace Syndrom... meaning, Phantom Menace could have been great and still would have sucked compared to the hype of that film.... The End of Time was so hyped up... that it doesn't matter what we got, nothing could live up to the hype... so it wasn't quite far to the episode going into it....

At least Phantom Menace Symdrom means a good ending! Just dreading the regeneration, and that will probably be Russel's "good part".

This episode, come to think of it now, was quite a shambles. I'm genuinely disappointed in Russel T Davies.

Jon

I was enjoying the episode for the most part (if you cut out the Master's poor eating habits and babbling) until the end where everyone turned into the Master (what about babies and pregnant woman) - makes no sense why he would want to rule himself???. Why oh why did RTD have to do his usual over the top storytelling and ruin the story with this silliness - enough with epic. The timelords return would have been sufficient. The brightest spot was the moment between Wilf and the Doctor in the cafe. Why couldn't there have been more of that stuff. And who's the woman Wilf keeps seeing - Romana???

scarywood wrote:

Wes Crayon wrote:

I thought it was pure trash -- easily the worst Doctor Who episode I've ever seen.

In ways, your probably right. There was alot of stuff that was completely erelevant and useless, like turning the human race into himself....just pointless. ...but as I said above. We need to see the second half.

Yeah, it's possible that the second half will be brilliant, but even so there's no way it could redeem this awful episode. Someone else told me that I shouldn't judge the first part until seeing the second, and I responded thusly:

Quote :

See, that's like having someone take a diarrhetic dump on your carpet for no reason whatsoever and saying, "Hey, let's not judge him until we see how he cleans it up!" Yeah, there's always the possibility that the crapper will raise Billy Mays from the grave and come forth with some new cleaning product that causes fresh, watery crap (not to mention those pesky brain stains) to vanish like magic... but the original act will still have been largely pointless and pretty darned gross, and you'll still shudder at the memory of that awful smell.

With the possible exception of sports games, I can't think of anything where the first half was awful but the second half was so brilliant that it made up for it.

well wescrayon I felt that way in the episode utopia until the ending- it made up for the beyond the thunderdome 35 minutes. I mean it was the first time I really was surprised because I was not naughty looking at the spoilers. I have a feeling that hype put aside, that end of time is not too bad of a first parter. I prefer humor in doctor who and I have no problems when it gets a bit campy. I'm the type that loves the 60's batman as opposed to the dark, angry and angsty batman of today. Of course many have told me I have no taste...but sadly I take that as a compliment.