S8E2: Into the Dalek (SPOILERS)

I enjoyed the episode, but the story wasn't very original. A cross between Carnival of Monsters and Dalek.

Capaldi is a good Doctor, but it felt like they were trying to make him more cold and rude than he needed to be.

Danny seems promising compared to past male characters like Rory and Mickey who were basically comedic relief. Except he has the worst name ever. Just tell me that "Pink" isn't an alien or related to the "Blues" from this episodes as some kind of plot twist down the line.

Overall, this was a decent story, but I felt the bits with Clara and Danny, especially the pointless and unfollowed teary-eye scene, were unnecessary and bogged down the plot. I didn't like the soldiers/rebels either. They seemed untrained and too emotional, like the guys you get when you can't afford any better soldier actors. 12's line about the Dalek being a better soldier than Blue ever will be really hit home.

Other than that, I liked the direction of the episode, mostly. The Dalek was incapable of being good without a serious mental change, like the Dalek in 2005's Dalek recieved, but rather found hatred wherever it looked; albeit for its own species. Very interesting adherence and also departure to and from the Dalek's way of thinking.

The anti-bodies were cool, and while I thought the Dalek should be able to control every aspect of its body, I realized it wouldn't really want to control the antibodies, because everything is up for extermination to the Daleks.

I enjoyed the "reminiscing" from 12 about his first encounter with the Daleks, and the eye-to-eye meeting with the mutant. I also noticed the Daleks now lack the shielding that they had in the past, which makes sense because they wouldn't need such powerful casings like they did for the Time War, and also because they are an empire again, not four Daleks fighting for survival. I liked the rapid-firing Dalek gun that Rusty had.  The exterminations were much appreciated, too.

Did anyone notice the scene with the Daleks breaking the door to the medical station and advancing in the dark used 12'' RC Daleks?

A few thoughts:

1. The episode looked beautiful. Loved the space scenes and effects. Although I will say when we were back at the school on earth it looked a bit oddly low budget.

2. Love the Doctor. I love that he's a bit edgier. Capaldi is great.

3. So many great lines are hard to understand! I only caught them the second go 'round, really.

4. I really like Danny Pink so far, and I thought he and Clara's scenes were great. Future set-up no doubt

BUT...

5. Man, there was some well-worn thematic territory here. The Doctor's hatred of the Daleks just feels... well, like we've talked about that and resolved that in various ways. Seemed weird to go back over it again here.

But, that didn't make me dislike the episode.

Invisible Supreme wrote:

Did anyone notice the scene with the Daleks breaking the door to the medical station and advancing in the dark used 12'' RC Daleks?

I didn't really notice it, but I know they used model Daleks in Day of the Doctor and Time of the Doctor, so it wouldn't surprise me.

The first thing I thought of when I heard 'Rusty' was our good friend on the forum Rust who has had a Dalek as his avatar for months, and now there's a Dalek named after him - I'd be over the moon!

I liked this story a lot! Finally we get to see the Daleks just be Daleks for once! No fanciful masterplan, it's just the Daleks hunting down "inferior life" and killing people, which is what the Daleks should be! It felt very Classic in that way. I especially loved the scenes inside the Daleks' ship where they're just shouting orders and chanting. It also looked phenomenal, inside the ship and out. The space battle at the beginning looked great! This is definitely the Daleks how I like them.

I really like the idea that there is now a 'good' Dalek out there. I wonder if this means we'll see a new 'civil war' type conflict between the Daleks, like the Imperials vs the Renegades, or if they'll not come back to Rusty on screen but just leave it to fan imagination. There was apparently a scene in an earlier cut where Rusty self-destructs after the Doctor talks about it not being a victory at the end. I'm glad they left that scene out. I much prefer the idea of Rusty still being out there.

The whole 'Into the Dalek' concept was fun and interesting. However, a part of me wonders if it was necessary and I wonder that if they hadn't spent their time in there, would we have got to see more of the Daleks. However, I know that if they hadn't spent their time away from the main fighting and instead inside Rusty, the episode would not have been the nice simple 'Daleks just being bad' story that it is. It would have perhaps become more complex if they'd been a part of the main fighting (and there's nothing wrong with a complex story, of course, but a nice simple one is such a change and is really welcomed).

As for the Doctor, his new personality is becoming more clearer to us. He's harsh, snappy and a bit hard-hearted, and I love that. The lines he gives in reference to people who had just died, such as "He was dead already, I was saving us" and "He's on the top layer if anyone wants to say any last words" reminded me a lot of the 4th Doctor's attitude towards people dying. He cares but he sees one death next to millions of deaths as less important. But more than that, he's also willing to kill. He basically led an innocent man to his death. I don't know how I feel about that. I guess, as the Doctor said, the guy was already gonna get killed so the Doctor just sped it up to buy the rest of them some time.

But at the same time, he's hating on the soldiers for killing, and he hates on Rusty for killing, too (even though he's killing the Daleks - you'd think he'd be grateful for that). I'm having a hard time trying to understand the Doctor here. He seems fine with killing but... Can't stand those who kill, too? I'm not really sure what his deal is there? Is it because he knows he's like the Daleks but doesn't want to be / is trying not to be? His hatred of killing is actually him being discontent with himself, hence him being unsure of if he's a good man or not?

I really liked the line about him not actually being 'The Doctor' until after he'd met the Daleks. "See, all those years ago when I began, I was just running. I called myself the Doctor, but it was just a name. Then I went to Skaro, and then I met you lot, and I understood who I was. The Doctor is not the Daleks." This helps clear up why the 1st Doctor is rather spiteful and selfish at first. I really like that.

And lastly, Clara is enjoyable in this story. Again, it feels like she's actually developing at long last and I'm finally starting to like her. There's a nice balance between her and the Doctor's participation in 'saving the day'; they both work together, whereas with Amy it always felt like Amy was saving the day and the Doctor was stood on the sideline admiring her. Danny Pink also seems like a great character, too, who seems to have an interesting story behind him that I'm looking forward to seeing unfold. He definitely had a better and more meaningful introduction in terms of characterisation than Clara did, that's for sure.

Overall, this is a great story. The Daleks are great, Rusty is great, the exterminations are great, the action and the Daleks blowing up is great, the Doctor is great, Clara is great. However, it still doesn't beat 2005's 'Dalek' as my favourite Dalek story. And even though I really enjoyed this story, there's something holding me back from giving it full marks and voting "Fantastic!" on the poll. I think the simplicity that I've just been praising might be both a blessing and a curse; it really makes the story very accessible and let's the Daleks shine, but I think it's also missing something that I can't put my finger on. Either way, I enjoyed this story and would give it a 9/10.

Invisible Supreme wrote:

Did anyone notice the scene with the Daleks breaking the door to the medical station and advancing in the dark used 12'' RC Daleks?

I did wonder why they were looking upwards for no reason, it makes sense now!

Funny, I thought that the Daleks looking up as they rolled forward in that scene reminded me of my 12" RC Dalek Sec I was like wait... nahhhh can't be!

TinDogRory wrote:

I'm wondering if BBCA chopped the episode, we never see the Doctor & Co. regain full height. Did anyone catch the Easter Egg that Bleeding Cool and others talked about? I didn't see where it would happen and can't figure out if it's a real thing that was cut after the work print or a hoax. (Or cut out of BBCA.)

I didn't see it in my BBC version I watched, but they did mention that the bracelet had a button that if you hit it, pop, back to full size.

And glad we now know what the "Removable Power Core" on the Touch-Control Sonic Screwdriver is for, and why it's shaped like a pill

Wow, what an episode!

Capaldi is fast becoming one of my favorite Doctors. He seems colder, but I wonder if that's just in contrast to Tennant and Smith's more human takes on our favorite Time Lord? He's certainly dispassionate, and seems much more alien again. His matter-of-fact delivery of certain lines seemed harsh, but really, they are just simple statements of fact without being couched by any sensitivity or etiquette.

The writing in this episode was stellar. Sure the plot was fairly straightforward and a bit predictable, but darn if just about everything 12 says isn't something you could imagine on a T-shirt one day. "This one is called Uncle I think, or maybe I made that up to pass the time while they were talking", "Don't be lasgana" and "Mortuaries and larders are the easiest things to break out of. Oh I have lived a life!" are three that stood out to me. The incredibly cool way he handled Journey Blue pointing a gun at him (he never even put down his coffee) in the opener was pure awesome! This is a Doctor who is not only used to being in control, he demands it. I also love how cooly he flies the Tardis now - he just flips a lever or two instead of flailing all about.

The riffs on Classic Who were also most welcome. The reminiscing about Skaro was nice, and we got both a crawling-through-a-tube scene AND an enemy-cuts-through-a-door scene! I also caught a bit of Star Wars in there, mostly in the opening shots of the small ship being chased by the larger Dalek ship and the Dalek stomach/trash compactor scene.


They continue to develop Clara quite nicely, now that she doesn't have to be a mystery girl anymore. Her "you're not my boss, you're one of my hobbies" was great and the Danny Pink subplot looks promising. Most interesting of course, is how they have developed her relationship to the Doctor. Twelve absolutely knows what to do scientifically and tactically, he's just not sure of himself morally - and needs Clara to be his moral compass. It's almost as if he senses the darkness within himself and cannot discern whether his actions are good without her. An interesting wrinkle to be sure, as it means the Doctor may be a lot more unpredictable, and quite the change of pace from Matt Smith's portrayal. I like it.

Overall, a really wonderful episode. The Daleks were appropriately evil and murderous. The SFX were superb, and everything looked amazing! Capaldi is a bad@$$ and Clara is more than just eye candy! Looking forward to next week's episode!

I liked this episode much more than last week's "Deep Breath". But I can now see the overall series arc could proceed and the issues that it will address. More serious drama and less "being clever" to the point that the plot no longer makes sense. Good work.

With more story presumably in store at Coal Hill School, could it be long before we see Headmaster Ian Chesterton? Would be interesting to see this no-nonsense Doctor's reaction to a former companion.

fatsal wrote:

With more story presumably in store at Coal Hill School, could it be long before we see Headmaster Ian Chesterton? Would be interesting to see this no-nonsense Doctor's reaction to a former companion.

Oh please make that happen! Please!

Ronpur wrote:

TinDogRory wrote:

I'm wondering if BBCA chopped the episode, we never see the Doctor & Co. regain full height. Did anyone catch the Easter Egg that Bleeding Cool and others talked about? I didn't see where it would happen and can't figure out if it's a real thing that was cut after the work print or a hoax. (Or cut out of BBCA.)

I didn't see it in my BBC version I watched, but they did mention that the bracelet had a button that if you hit it, pop, back to full size.

I wasn't sure. It was a pretty abrupt transition after a poorly placed commercial break. While I was aware of the line, I thought it was odd we didn't see them size up.

TinDogRory wrote:

Ronpur wrote:

TinDogRory wrote:

I'm wondering if BBCA chopped the episode, we never see the Doctor & Co. regain full height. Did anyone catch the Easter Egg that Bleeding Cool and others talked about? I didn't see where it would happen and can't figure out if it's a real thing that was cut after the work print or a hoax. (Or cut out of BBCA.)

I didn't see it in my BBC version I watched, but they did mention that the bracelet had a button that if you hit it, pop, back to full size.

I wasn't sure. It was a pretty abrupt transition after a poorly placed commercial break. While I was aware of the line, I thought it was odd we didn't see them size up.

Journey Blue explaining the bracelets:

Journey Blue: "These are nano controllers. Ok, once we're miniaturized they take over the molecular compression. When the mission's over, hit the button."

Rubbertoe's Replicas input in the latest DW episode. They were asked to strip back the remote Dalek's and make them more accurate. New guns from metal were fitted and they gave them a re spray in the official colours.

"These are the 12 inch remote control Daleks. We basically took them apart and re-sprayed everything with the accurate colours, re-made the guns in aluminium, metal polished the base and then art worked them to make them look slightly used. I think we did 20 in total."

I think Missy is one of the Claras from The Name of the Doctor.

Ben C. wrote:

TinDogRory wrote:

Ronpur wrote:

TinDogRory wrote:

I'm wondering if BBCA chopped the episode, we never see the Doctor & Co. regain full height. Did anyone catch the Easter Egg that Bleeding Cool and others talked about? I didn't see where it would happen and can't figure out if it's a real thing that was cut after the work print or a hoax. (Or cut out of BBCA.)

I didn't see it in my BBC version I watched, but they did mention that the bracelet had a button that if you hit it, pop, back to full size.

I wasn't sure. It was a pretty abrupt transition after a poorly placed commercial break. While I was aware of the line, I thought it was odd we didn't see them size up.

Journey Blue explaining the bracelets:

Journey Blue: "These are nano controllers. Ok, once we're miniaturized they take over the molecular compression. When the mission's over, hit the button."

Yeah, as I said, I was aware of the mechanic. It just seemed like something between the Dalek stopping the others and the Doctor becoming full-sized again seemed to be missing, especially the way it was interrupted. It's not a necessary thing, but it didn't seem like everything was resolved inside the Dalek before they were just there. Just a little oddity.

TinDogRory wrote:

Ronpur wrote:

TinDogRory wrote:

I'm wondering if BBCA chopped the episode, we never see the Doctor & Co. regain full height. Did anyone catch the Easter Egg that Bleeding Cool and others talked about? I didn't see where it would happen and can't figure out if it's a real thing that was cut after the work print or a hoax. (Or cut out of BBCA.)

I didn't see it in my BBC version I watched, but they did mention that the bracelet had a button that if you hit it, pop, back to full size.

I wasn't sure. It was a pretty abrupt transition after a poorly placed commercial break. While I was aware of the line, I thought it was odd we didn't see them size up.

It's okay, we didn't see them size-up on BBC1 here in the UK either.

Holy crap that was good.

The latest plot was very similar to the "Invisible Enemy," where Leela is minaturized to save the Doctor from being taken over by the swarm and his spherical Gallifreyan antibodies killed everyone else inside him. It's most notable for introducing K-9.
It's kind of a bummer that they introduced Paradigm Daleks but haven't really done anything with them. They seem to have bowed to fan complaints that they looked too cutesy like Skittles or Power Rangers. I love cognitive dissonance so I was looking foward to brightly colored Daleks committing atrocities. Falling back on RTD Daleks is playing it too safe.

Evil Monkey Pope wrote:

It's kind of a bummer that they introduced Paradigm Daleks but haven't really done anything with them. They seem to have bowed to fan complaints that they looked too cutesy like Skittles or Power Rangers. I love cognitive dissonance so I was looking foward to brightly colored Daleks committing atrocities. Falling back on RTD Daleks is playing it too safe.

Although I agree, I do much prefer the gold RTD Daleks and I hope we see still get to see them for many more Dalek stories to come. It would be cool to see the Paradigm Daleks take more leader-like roles and lead the masses of gold Daleks, like in the Dalek parliament. I would definitely like to more of them but I don't want them to get rid of the gold Daleks either.

Scary wrote:

fatsal wrote:

With more story presumably in store at Coal Hill School, could it be long before we see Headmaster Ian Chesterton? Would be interesting to see this no-nonsense Doctor's reaction to a former companion.

Oh please make that happen! Please!

Ian is listed as the Chairman of the Governors on the sign. Would that position have him at the school?

Ronpur wrote:

Scary wrote:

fatsal wrote:

With more story presumably in store at Coal Hill School, could it be long before we see Headmaster Ian Chesterton? Would be interesting to see this no-nonsense Doctor's reaction to a former companion.

Oh please make that happen! Please!

Ian is listed as the Chairman of the Governors on the sign.  Would that position have him at the school?

Hmm, well I've never met any of the governors at my secondary school/sixth form. However, I'm sure they visit for meetings with our headmistress on a regular basis. There's definitely a chance of them getting William Russell to appear in a cameo! Maybe even be a central character in a story? Like he somehow finds out about Clara's adventures with him or finds the TARDIS, a bit like 'School Reunion'. I really hope they're thinking of doing something like this!

What Doctor Who has been needing for the last 48 years is more Ian Chesterton. Mr. Russell is getting up there at 90 years old, but didn't he participate in the Official 50th Anniversary convention last year?

It was Ian who helped the rather selfish 1st Doctor overcome those impulses of the first series. If anything you can attribute the Doctor being "a good man" to Ian Chesterton's example. Not only would it be cool to see him again, but there is a legitimate reason in the story arc for him to pop up!