Official 11th Doctor Thread

welcome rust!
corvus...love the avatar...that is such a typical peterd twitch animated....cute!

Thanks!

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...^o^CORVUS^o^
Doctor Who: The Winds of Time

ok, i hate to go all 10th vs 11th again, but here's my point. the 10th doctor proclaiming himself to be timelord victorious, was his turn to the dark side. seeing as it was at the end of his run, it was a great time to do it(so we didn't have an evil doctor for a whole series). he also redeemed himself by saving wilf, so that character arc concluded.

however, my point about the 11th doctor telling every alien to run away from him, is in my opinion, he hasn't earned that right yet. tennant had, 9 fought all the time, but i haven't in all my years of watching who(and someone please point out to me another instance) seen a new doctor ride the coattails of his predecessors so much. sure, he's still the doctor, but he needs to earn that fear from his enemies. this series he just went around telling everyone to run away from him, why? as far as they are concerned he is a fresh regeneration(and his age doesn't help in my opinion to scare away enemies), and he could be more fragile than any of the other doctor's were. yet, they all still run away. i know this is just my opinion, but it bugs me. at least in tennants time, in school reunion, the headmaster went toe to toe with him untill the end(great job by anthony stewart head).

bret_owen99 wrote:

ok, i hate to go all 10th vs 11th again, but here's my point. the 10th doctor proclaiming himself to be timelord victorious, was his turn to the dark side. seeing as it was at the end of his run, it was a great time to do it(so we didn't have an evil doctor for a whole series). he also redeemed himself by saving wilf, so that character arc concluded.

however, my point about the 11th doctor telling every alien to run away from him, is in my opinion, he hasn't earned that right yet. tennant had, 9 fought all the time, but i haven't in all my years of watching who(and someone please point out to me another instance) seen a new doctor ride the coattails of his predecessors so much. sure, he's still the doctor, but he needs to earn that fear from his enemies. this series he just went around telling everyone to run away from him, why? as far as they are concerned he is a fresh regeneration(and his age doesn't help in my opinion to scare away enemies), and he could be more fragile than any of the other doctor's were. yet, they all still run away. i know this is just my opinion, but it bugs me. at least in tennants time, in school reunion, the headmaster went toe to toe with him untill the end(great job by anthony stewart head).

While I do tend to agree with you about Ten's Time Lord Victorious -- sure he was giving in to his darker side, but not necessarily to outright evil -- if that were the case, he would have had no remorse when he realized what he'd done IMO...but I don't see the need for the Doctor to have to start all over and earn fear from his enemies, just because he's regenerated. He is still the Doctor -- he knows it and they know it, and they would be wise to run when the Doctor says run.

bret_owen99 wrote:

While I do tend to agree with you about Ten's Time Lord Victorious -- sure he was giving in to his darker side, but not necessarily to outright evil -- if that were the case, he would have had no remorse when he realized what he'd done IMO...but I don't see the need for the Doctor to have to start all over and earn fear from his enemies, just because he's regenerated. He is still the Doctor -- he knows it and they know it, and they would be wise to run when the Doctor says run.

Agreed. To me, all the doctors are one person, the same person. Different quirks, different elements, different faces and voices, absolutely, but all the same person.

The fact is, the Doctor had grown excessively arrogant and confident. Part of it was the 10th's personality, absolutely, but part of it was born of experiences.

As far as 11 is concerned, he faced down the Vashta Nerada by telling them to "look me up," he saved the entirely universe from Daleks and the Timelord's End of Time plan, only just recently. (And of course, the bazillion other things the Doctor has done)

Also clearly shown in later episodes, 11 also has a tendency towards arrogance. So, to me, it seems entirely rational that he should behave that way, because as far as he's concerned, it was all him, and rightly so.

bret_owen99 wrote:

...but i haven't in all my years of watching who(and someone please point out to me another instance) seen a new doctor ride the coattails of his predecessors so much. sure, he's still the doctor, but he needs to earn that fear from his enemies.

A memo from the Hair-Splitting Department: The classic Doctor used to try to ride on his predecessors' coattails all the time; it just tended to be in lower-key moments rather than climactic ones. For example, in "Battlefield," Seven attempted to keep from getting tossed out of UNIT's field base by referencing his earlier adventures with the organization. It didn't work, but he tried it.

But that's obviously not what you're talking about: you're talking about the whole, "You must fear me!" riff we see so often since the 2005 relaunch. This was a contrivance of the RTD era. Earlier Doctors didn't really do this sort of thing; therefore, to compare the Eleventh Doctor's behavior (in this regard) to the classic Doctors is an exercise in apples-and-oranges..."in all my years of watching" sets a parameter that attempts to compare two incongruous conditions. Now, 11 could be compared to 9 and 10 in this regard, but not the others.

The crux of this matter, the new twist if you will, is that so many foes the Doctor faces are now aware of who he is. In classic Who, he regularly met people who had no idea who he was...no idea that he was some ageless being with many faces who'd defeated his enemies time and time again. Today, this is no longer the case: the Atraxi, for example, had the ability to learn this information, and they ran for the hills as soon as they realized this Doctor was, in fact, those other Doctors (NOTE: the Daleks, Cybermen, and Sontarans also seem to have much more detailed records than they used to, making the fact that they don't run all the more exciting when they show up! Bonus. ). So, that the Doctor is able to use this gambit now is indiciative of a much different state of affairs than existed in most of his classic stories, which pitted him against foes who (through ignorance or short-sightedness) had no reason to assume this one man was any threat to them. Now, though, no modern Doctor exists as an island unto himself: he is, for better or for worse, a continuation of the same man, and most of his major foes know it. The cat is out of the bag. It would be silly at this stage for the Doctor to try to pretend he isn't the same man, since everyone now knows he is, so it makes sense that he exploits that knowledge to his own benefit. From now on, every Doctor rides on the coattails of those who came before him, moreso than he ever did as a young Time Lord.

For the record, I wish this were different: I preferred it when the Doctor operated under the protection of anonymity, the distortion of myth and legend, and/or his foes' incredulity at the notion of this being the same guy every time. *sigh* I don't see the powers-that-be finding a way--or the desire--to undo this anytime soon, though.

ADDENDUM: If it helps any, Elelven isn't quite the neophyte he appears to be. We were reminded in The Big Bang (via the time-hopping bit in which we're given a glimpse of Eleven and Amy prepping to go to "Space Florida"), the Doctor has plenty of adventures we never see. It's reasonable to put two-and-two together and assume that we, the audience, are supposed to attribute greater experience to this Doctor than just what we've seen onscreen.

i see you're point mysterylad, and maybe that's just what i was so used to. the "classic" series always had him as anonymous or, if the enemies did find out who he was, they didn't believe it was him.

as far as my rant on arrogance, this wasn't aimed at 11, or even matt smith, it was aimed at moffat. i have now watched all the episodes of this series, and have come to the conclusion that i enjoyed the episodes that maffat didn't write. in those episodes the doctor(not amy) was the focus of the story, and often saved the day, without having to have some sort of pretentious speech. in moffat's stories, either amy saves the day, or the doctor has a big speech. i'm just hoping moff decides to do some things different next series.

bret_owen99 wrote:

i see you're point mysterylad, and maybe that's just what i was so used to. the "classic" series always had him as anonymous or, if the enemies did find out who he was, they didn't believe it was him.

I'm a fan of modern Who, but I really miss this. I am actually rather surprised at how much I miss this. There was something fun about seeing the Doctor's foes constantly underestimate him; it was as if we were in on the joke, and they weren't.

Quote :

as far as my rant on arrogance, this wasn't aimed at 11, or even matt smith, it was aimed at moffat. i have now watched all the episodes of this series, and have come to the conclusion that i enjoyed the episodes that maffat didn't write. in those episodes the doctor(not amy) was the focus of the story, and often saved the day, without having to have some sort of pretentious speech. in moffat's stories, either amy saves the day, or the doctor has a big speech. i'm just hoping moff decides to do some things different next series.

I've enjoyed Moffat's run (most of his idiosyncracies resonate positively with me, I guess), but I would like to see an end to the speeches, too. It's a tired device, and I'd like to see it avoided. The best ways to avoid it in the future would be to render it useless. For instance...

A.) The restored universe isn't quite perfect, and since we now know time can be rewritten, maybe legends regarding the Doctor recede into obscurity, restoring to the character a measure of anonymity and mystery.

B.) Let's put a moratorium on old villains and focus on creating new players in the universe, people who have had limited exposure to races with which the Doctor has interacted and have no reason to have ever heard of him.

C.) Create a new villain with the brains and will to look the Doctor dead in the eye after such a speech and say, "Your previous adversaries were clearly idiots. Since I'm as smart as you, I have no reason to fear you. One little man, no matter how clever he is, is no threat to me." With the Master being rendered pretty much useless after the way he was reinvented, driven mad, and redeemed in the RTD era, the Doctor could use a new Moriarty figure...someone equal to his intelligence and unafraid of him. And it would be a fun, meta-contextual way to lay to rest the Dramatic Speech.

Agreed. I too would love to see a return to a largely anonymous Doctor, and your suggestions there would be a great way to go about it.

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...^o^CORVUS^o^
Doctor Who: The Winds of Time

yea he just got here he should be here for 3 maybe even 4 seasons

Look, ma, new jacket(and a new shirt by the looks of it)

I'm with you, mysterylad and corvus. I was thinking the same things just the other day. In addition, lose the sonic screwdriver. It has become waaaay too much of a crutch. 1, 6, and 7 didn't have or need it and 2 and 5 barely used it, so it could be done. It would make the Doctor a stronger character without it. The uses they are making up for it from show to show are getting ludicrous.

The Sonic Screwdriver is becoming simply a part of the Doctor's arsenal. Personally, I'm not opposed to its use. It's a Mutlitool with scanning and hacking abilities, with the additional ability to use compressed sonic waves on more conventional objects to act as a "Skeleton Key", or even physically damage sensitive electronics.

beep wrote:

Look, ma, new jacket(and a new shirt by the looks of it)

Is it me, or does this jacket look longer?

so far i think that Matt Smith is doing a good job. he is really out there with his but i like the change for right now.

http://www.spike.com/event/scream2010/page/vote/category/39447/best-tv-show

vote for Doctor Who !!!

I enjoy his take on The Doctor.

The first Doctor Who episode I saw was Eleventh Hour. I was hooked after one episode.
After getting up-to-date, I took it upon myself to force my mother to watch an episode of the show. I did the dishes in exchange for her sitting with me to watch "Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone." She was completely enthralled, and like me, hooked after one episode. I am astonished by two things, always: the sheer appeal this show has to everyone, and the fact that I must be the last person on earth (before my mother) to discover this show!

Based on the original Sonic Screwdriver which was, oddly, just usable as a screwdriver, I think it has turned into too much of a magic wand. It can disable an engine with a simple flick of the wrist? And then fix it just as quickly?

I don't care for how NuWho has used the Sonic Screwdriver as some kind of scanning device. In mechanic work, I can buy it (It is a Screwdriver, after all), but it needs to stop being the Doctor's Tricorder.

Rust wrote:

I don't care for how NuWho has used the Sonic Screwdriver as some kind of scanning device. In mechanic work, I can buy it (It is a Screwdriver, after all), but it needs to stop being the Doctor's Tricorder.

I agree... my mind hadn't coalesced the thought that way, but reading it here now, I agree.

I think that since as he regenerates 11th may look younger but is older then 10th. I think they try to write in some aspects of past doctors as they go for example.

Come along Pond. *Come along* goes back to patrick troughton.

His temper tantrums or lack of patience go back to William Hartnell.

It was on Yahoo that Doctor who The first episode of season six had over 5,000,000 viewer which blew my mind..

I think the 11th Doctor along with moffits writing is the best Who we have seen to date
just my opinion.

I agree that the standard of Doctor Who as a show is on a whole new level now, and I'm glad that it is not afraid of change, and of delivering complex sci-fi ideas to its audience.
Sometimes those ideas are arguably a little too complex, like the Universe being re-booted and Amy&Rory living out their lives again, only to remember the Doctor on their wedding day because of a clue the Doctor placed in Amy's mind while he was experiencing the former Universe in reverse-order, and thus bringing the Doctor back, presumably along with all his past actions, and letting him materialize in a room full of wedding guests, who seemed to handle the whole bizarre experience surprisingly well... - I mean, that is a lot for even a hardcore who-nerd to ingest. That is the only moment in the Moffat era so far that made me question the level of contrivance. Still, it's ambitious.

And season 6 has been very ambitious so far, and mostly successful. I think the whole plot of "A Good Man Goes to War" was about bringing into focus the issue that the Doctor cannot expect to continue staring down villains into retreat. This seems to be one of the cliches of modern Who that Moffat wants to challenge, and take in a different direction, by letting us see the doctor get in too deep, letting the Doctor underestimate them for a change, and I think it is likely to be a good thing for the show.

The Matt Smith Doctor is amazing, an absolute natural in the part. Don't have a problem with the use of the sonic yet, but I'd like to see a wider variety of crazy gadgets, like the thing he used to see the monster in Vincent and the Doctor.

Preferred him more in series 6 than I did in series 5, personally. His character has grown much more since 'The Eleventh Hour,' I reckon.

I made up my mind to like Matt Smith since his first "Geronimo!"