Season 3 Discussion - SPOILERS! (renamed)

has anyone seen the page for Utopia on bbc has some new pics on it:)

Sweet..
http://www.gallifreyone.com/cgi-bin/viewnews.cgi?id=EElEAuEyElnOMzRGPD&tmpl=newsrss&style=feedstyle

Just finished watching Utopia. Not too terribly impressed myself. The "thing" regarding someone finding out their identity seemed to be really contrived. And honestly, I am not sure I am going to bother buying the boxed set of this season when it comes out. Apart from Gridlock and Blink I didnt really care for any of the episodes this year.

I don't know if I'll buy the box either mabye get it later on ebay?I liked the episode but how did he get the watch? is in one of the previous ones?Can't wait for the next one.

Hoosier Whovian wrote:

Just finished watching Utopia. Not too terribly impressed myself. The "thing" regarding someone finding out their identity seemed to be really contrived. And honestly, I am not sure I am going to bother buying the boxed set of this season when it comes out. Apart from Gridlock and Blink I didnt really care for any of the episodes this year.

The first half of the episode was rubbish, but then it got considerably better and ended with a bang. Definitely a winner in my book and I am extremely happy to have the Master back--and played by John Simm no less. Very cool.

Wow. You liked Gridlock? I thought that was easily the worse episode of this series so far.

Daleks in Manhatten was total crap except for the musical number. I'm sorry but they spent WAY TOO MUCH time running around in the sewers. It was the worst case of padding since The power of Kroll.

Evolution of the Daleks. I had a feeling that Sec was going to become a pop-tart, if he had survived I would have looked for J. Michael Straczynski's name on the script. That is the kind of thing they did on Babylon 5 all the time.

Part of the appeal of Gridlock. It did have a Blade Runneresque quality about it. The part where everyone starts singing got to me for some reason.

Me at 37 years of age can get teary eyed about a bunch of brits in a van singing a daily affirmation on a far away planet. I have got to change my meds!

Of course the last few minutes where Martha put her foot down and the Doctor came clean about being the last of the Time Lords as the chorus sang was very moving also.

I do have to mention that I did not see the Lazarus Experiment, so I cant judge it. And 42 seemed a bit like a gimmick, although I did like the idea of the star being alive.

The Family of Blood two parter was very good, however. I do like the period pieces.

The last like 7 minutes or so of Utopia were engrossing, I was just disappointed that Derek Jacobi didnt stay as the Master or figure it out sooner. He really is a great talent.

THe preview for episode thirteen doesnt really look all that exciting, but then again, previews dont show everything.

The Martha debate. Maybe because her family is so screwed up compared to Rose's, not that jackie Tyler is any competition for Carol Brady, but at least Rose's Mother CARED about her daughter. From what I have seen of Marthas mum, she could care less. And that might be what is subliminally getting to people. Of course a lot of fans fell in love with Rose and Martha is just the break up stand in.

Just a couple of thoughts.

It's not the exact same watch, of course. This is a Gallifreyan device and both of them had one.

But man, this answers the question of how the Doctor was both the last Time Lord and not alone.

Chan. Yana... that was clever. Do.

A few thoughts.

Really enjoyed the last half - the pointy teeth people seemed a little cheesey. Seems to me the "End of the Universe" should at least compare to the end of the Earth or Gridlock.

I didn't know that Time Lords could control their regenerations... or maybe this is a trick the Master picked up (also allowing him extra regenerations as well?). The Master became a child before using the cameleon device and then became a younger man at the end of the episode.

I really like Doctor Who Jack better than Torchwood Jack.

Boths Masters were fantastic - they actually seem intellegent and frightening. Very evil. :master:

This was the first episode for a while that really had my imagination racing. Was the Master in Jack? Is Jack the first human Time-Lord? Was the professor really the Master or something else altogether? What is Utopia really? In the end it all went pretty predictably, but I hope that RTD can bring back the anticipation and mystery I felt last night in upcoming episodes.

The appeal of Gridlock, to me at least, is the Face of Boe's message. (Well, that and Ardal O'Hanlon) I really enjoy the episodes that further the overall Doctor Who story and explore bigger mysteries. TV like 24 and Lost wears me out, but I do have a taste for shows that tie together tightly (which Doctor Who does fairly well most of the time).

I never thought of the whole Jack/timelord idea. I just am not a fan of the Master coming back.

I thought the cult of skaro was a cheat as far as the Daleks are concerned also.

They have never said implicitly that the cybermen from our universe were totally destroyed. Athough it would be nice to have a different design for ours if they did pursue future stories. Character Options would be happy I am sure!

This season also didnt have an easter egg in it eiher. No BAD WOLF or TORCHWOOD. Maybe that got to people also as far as disappointments.

Of course, how do you top a season finale' of daleks versus cybermen? One idea, and they had better NOT ever do it - the return of Rose Tyler! With NO ONE knowing about it until after it happens.

"Luke I am your father." Star Wars was all downhill after that moment. Lucas couldnt have just went and had Vader say "Actually, Luke, you're adopted."

Let's hope we see stephen fry's episode next year.

Hoosier Whovian wrote:

I never thought of the whole Jack/timelord idea. I just am not a fan of the Master coming back.

I thought the cult of skaro was a cheat as far as the Daleks are concerned also.

They have never said implicitly that the cybermen from our universe were totally destroyed. Athough it would be nice to have a different design for ours if they did pursue future stories. Character Options would be happy I am sure!

This season also didnt have an easter egg in it eiher. No BAD WOLF or TORCHWOOD. Maybe that got to people also as far as disappointments.

Of course, how do you top a season finale' of daleks versus cybermen? One idea, and they had better NOT ever do it - the return of Rose Tyler! With NO ONE knowing about it until after it happens.

"Luke I am your father." Star Wars was all downhill after that moment. Lucas couldnt have just went and had Vader say "Actually, Luke, you're adopted."

Let's hope we see stephen fry's episode next year.

Mr. Saxon was this season's Easter Egg (he was first mentioned in the Christmas special and then in various episodes afterward).

Dana

CJSchmidt wrote:

I didn't know that Time Lords could control their regenerations... or maybe this is a trick the Master picked up (also allowing him extra regenerations as well?). The Master became a child before using the cameleon device and then became a younger man at the end of the episode.

The master was last in a human body and had no TARDIS nor access to a chameleon arch as he was stranded in the eye of harmony. Not sure how RTD plans to keep continuity, unless there's some story of the Master being rescued by the Time Lords because his cunning had been needed in the Time War to defeat the Daleks. Maybe the Council finally gave him the new regeneration cycle he was offered in "The Five Doctors". This would have given him back his regeneration ability and it would have given him access to a new TARDIS and chameleon arch. But being the Master, he simply fled and used the Arch to save himself. I'm waiting to see how it all gets explained.

At any rate, the Master had already been through all 13 regenerations and a couple of body swaps, so his ability to quickly recover from his regeneration makes sense, but the reason he did it was standard Time Lord need due to being shot by Chantho and dying. As for turning into a little boy, I don't think that was a regeneration, but rather an effect of the chameleon arch. If it can be programmed to give you the identity you tell it, as both the Doctor and the Master clearly did, then you should be able to pick the age you want. The machine rewrites you biology so it would have been possible to rewrite himself as a young human.

One side thought...Doctor stuck in the year 100 Trillion with no TARDIS? Didn't really even see him in the previews for the next one, so how does he get back?

He will use Jack's watch?Or the master can send the tardis back?I can't wait!!

Maybe the Master just programmed his back story of growing up and moving from planet to planet. He could have escaped directly to that planet 10 years prior and stashed a broken Tardis (with a fully functioning chameleon circuit) somewhere on the base. Maybe he'll use Jacks watch to recall the Tardis after the Master steps out in 200X.

THIS is the kind of discussion a good Doctor Who episode generates. Great stuff.

I hadn't even thought of the Doctor fixing Jack's Time-Bangle!
It does seem to me that, if they can get the door shut to keep the Futurekind out, they're stuck in that room... so unless there is a TARDIS hidden there somewhere...

I would lean toward a "gluten based" fix for Jack's "space hopper". Does anyone watch the other part of the new series, the Doctor Who Confidential series. They will be doing an in-depth look at the Master over four decades From Del Gado and Ainley, all the way up to Roberts on the next one. They covered Jack's back story pretty deep on the one for Utopia, so it should be a good look back. If you did see it then you may or may not have noticed the TCE being used in the preview. If not here's a snap...

OMG love John Simm, always have, always will. My teenage son took one look and said, "He's way more charismatic than the Doctor," and he likes Tennant's Ten (I'm still way on the fence about that). I was also sad to see Derek Jacobi go. Obviously he's a wonderful actor and I thought his character was very touching.

While I understand there are continuity problems and ultimately bringing the Master back is probably a bit of a cheat, that's okay with me. If Simm keeps chewing scenery and completely reveling in his evilness they way he did for those five minutes we saw him then I'll be hoping for a spinoff!(don't panic, I don't really mean it. At least not much. I do love John Simm).

Yes, the teeth people were just dumb.

rsnation, there's a blurb on the new Doctor Who Magazine due out on June 28th at Outpost Gallifrey. It has an interview with Simm in it. Details here...

http://www.gallifreyone.com/news.php

The sound of drums...I was waiting for a decent explanation as to how the Master could regenerate and how he escaped the eye of harmony, and whether the time lords were responsible. One sentence reply, all three questions answered. May not satisfy everyone but it worked for me.

This was a great episode for a middle part of a three part story. They could have wasted it as filler to tell everything in the third part, but I felt like I got quite a lot of story questions answered and the big question only seems larger now. How will they stop the Master?! I am chomping at the bit to see The Last of the Time Lords!

Side note...Sorry for misnaming the device in the pic I posted. I just figured return of the Master meant return of the Tissue Compression Eliminator. This new device is certainly more menacing than people shrunk to doll size.

Yes...His Laser Screwdriver...And I'm enjoying John Simm.

That was Fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I loved it.Can't wait for the next one:)Sorry torchwood wasn't around.

The reason for the lack of Torchwood is that RTD wants to keep the two shows as separate as possible because it's aimed at a much more mature audience.

So, any speculation of what the Troclofayne (or however it's spelled) are? The Master told the Doctor it would break his hearts... and they seemed to come through a rift in SpaceTime...

I only see three possible answers that would "break his hearts". Something involving Rose (not gonna happen). Something involving the Time Lords. Something involving the unresolved humans from Utopia plot.

I would go with Time Lords, but the Master didn't really seem to know what happened to Gallifrey so I don't know about that.

The humans from Utopia makes some sense, but I'm not sure how RTD would make it work.

Why did the Master convert the Tardis into the Paradox machine? It sounds to me that he wants to change history in a way that shouldn't really work (like future humans killing their ancestors maybe?).

With all the questions, I wish they would have given us a little more to go on.

If it wasn't for Torchwood, I would love to see the birth of a new race of human Time Lords starting with Jack, "The Captain". Thought about this when Jack described his outlook on living forever and watching the Human race survive as "Fantastic!". He does regenerate, after all (in a fashion).

CJSchmidt wrote:

... Something involving the unresolved humans from Utopia plot.

I would go with Time Lords, but the Master didn't really seem to know what happened to Gallifrey so I don't know about that.

The humans from Utopia makes some sense, but I'm not sure how RTD would make it work...

Oooh... there's a thought.
As to how he would make it work, I sure didn't see the Doctor being the last Time Lord because the Master had turned human until the reveal. Then it made sense...